To think i wasn't in the wrong here? (traffic lights/crossing issue)

[ASorcererIsAWizardSquared]

Outside my kids school (not directly, its about 500 metres down the road, but its the only one with lights/green man) there is a pedestrian crossing, lights and everything, just past it, literally about 4 car lengths away is a junction, so quite often, during school run time, the traffic will be jammed.

Now i know its illegal to park/stop on a crossing, so if i cant cross the crossing completely, i will stop before it, because people can still press the button and turn the lights red to use the crossing.

Today i was in that situation, but the light was still green, i just couldnt continue on due to the traffic, cars were still coming from the other way as normal because of a green light.

Now, a mom and her kids approached the crossing, just as the traffic cleared, and as i went to move off (still green light) they decided, without pressing the button or waiting for the red light, or even seeing if i was going to let them over, to step onto the crossing and i beeped at them to warn them i was actually moving, and the mom yelled at me.

I dont feel i did anything wrong. It was my green light there was no green man or beep to tell them to cross, the crossing was only clear because its illegal to stop ON the crossing, and there was still traffic approaching from the other way.

I wouldn't nod someone to cross in that situation as i cant predict, at only 4 cars lengths, that someone isn't going to suddenly turn into the junction at full speed with a green light and potentially run someone over.

AIBU to think she was taking a risk and shouldn't have been teaching her kids its ok to step out infront of a car on a crossing when its not a red light and there is no 'green man' to tell them to cross?

pedestrians only have right of way if they're already crossing/in the road. They shouldn't cross when vehicles are in motion unless its safe to do so!

You did nothing wrong OP, in fact you did everything right.

Now the thing that makes my blood boil is when other drivers slow down or stop and wave pedestrians waiting for a gap in the traffic across the road. So often these nitwits appear not to have looked behind them or have looked for cyclists on the inside, etc. and of course they cannot do anything about traffic in the opposite carriageway.

Vehicles are always in motion. There aren't many people who step out directly in front of moving cars. The question is, how far away is a safe moving car? That depends on the driver. With a cockbadger at the wheel, nowhere is safe.

had a similar incident. while it is up to cars to give way to pedestrians already crossing a side road, this pedestrian turned round, looked at my car, which was clearly indicating, waited until i was moving around the corner and then stepped into the road with her child and was also extremely cross when I beeped to avoid a collision.

Pedestrians were around a long time before cars, be more considerate

I don't understand why people are beeping their horns to avoid a colision? Surely using the brake would be more sensible?

I think you are shaken and upset as she shouted at you when you had done nothing wrong.

As said above, I think it was a mistake to beep your horn. You used it correctly, to alert her to your presence, but from her POV a car she (wrongly) assumed was stationary was moving towards her and her children and sounding it's horn, which would be utterly terrifying if you assumed the car was sounding it's horn to get you to move.

I wouldn't give it too much more thought, she acted stupidly, put herself and her kids in danger, and because you made her recognise how much danger she was in she blamed you reflexively. I'm sure given more time to think she would have realised shouting at you was wrong.

Beeping doesn't avoid the collision, stopping the car does.

I don't understand why people are beeping their horns to avoid a colision? Surely using the brake would be more sensible?

Beeping doesn't avoid the collision, stopping the car does.

The pedestrian was not paying sufficient regard to the car. That is why cars are fitted with horns, and a car would fail its MOT if it wasn't working.

Rule 112 of the Highway Code:

The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence.

Just wanted to thank you for leaving the crossing clear. So few drivers do in my experience!

The woman wasn't blind! Using the horn, nowadays, is simply a sign of impatience and irritation. On occasion, I have informed drivers of this.

I presume the mother wasn't paying attention and thought she was safe to cross, that the lights were red. Although I do see pedestrians stepping out like this a fair bit anyway, I've seen a lot more people crossing side roads without even looking recently. They know cars have to stop and don't care.

I walk more than I drive and I hate crossing in this situation, I prefer to wait for the lights to turn as the road can suddenly clear and the driver change their minds. It's not worth the risk.

blind? no.

Not paying attention, absolutely.

Therefore my use of the horn was appropriate. she HADN'T NOTICED i was MOVING.

Technically a pedestrian has the right of way. Absolutely and totally agree with this, however, not going to help them when they're dead or seriously injured because of their stupidity at not looking at what's going on around them is it.

I think the mum was stupid for walking out into a road like that with her child, but any driver should really have expected it. If I'm driving down a road with lots of pedestrians (high street, school at school-run times) I always expect people to walk out in front of me. Defensive driving is really the best way.

So I think you were both BU.

How on earth can anyone think that pedestrians have right of way when crossing a road? They don't.

Extracts from the Highway Code (on the gov website):

206
Drive carefully and slowly when

in crowded shopping streets, Home Zones and Quiet Lanes (see Rule 218) or residential areas
driving past bus and tram stops; pedestrians may emerge suddenly into the road
passing parked vehicles, especially ice cream vans; children are more interested in ice cream than traffic and may run into the road unexpectedly
needing to cross a pavement or cycle track; for example, to reach or leave a driveway. Give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the pavement
reversing into a side road; look all around the vehicle and give way to any pedestrians who may be crossing the road
turning at road junctions; give way to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are turning
the pavement is closed due to street repairs and pedestrians are directed to use the road
approaching pedestrians on narrow rural roads without a footway or footpath. Always slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary, giving them plenty of room as you drive past.

Rule 170 of the HC says:
Take extra care at junctions. You should...watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way

So there are only very limited situations in which the pedestrian has ROW. On a straight road they never have right of way.

So if anyone wants to cross the road as if they, the pedestrian has ROW then go ahead. But know that you are in the wrong. And please don't teach your children this.

She was being unreasonable, but you were worse.

Misuse of horn on your part - you were using it to show annoyance.

Sometimes cars wait/pedestrians cross on the basis of there being solid traffic 50 yards up the road, so even if you go, you aren't actually getting anywhere IYSWIM, so it makes sense to allow the pedestrian to cross, given that they are the only one making progress. So that might explain her behaviour.

Examples of where you COULD use the horn:

• Driving along the road, a car reversing into your path - beep to show you are coming, this helps avoid a potential collision.

• On the motorway, car veering into your lane without looking - beep to warn him.

www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q406.htm

so you would cross would you Inn? Even though traffic was still flowing in the other direction, you're going to walk infront of a moving vehicle, and then possible either have to stand in the middle of the road, on a green light, or get run over?

I guess you missed this bit

www.gov.uk/rules-pedestrians-1-to-35/crossings-18-to-30
21. At traffic lights. There may be special signals for pedestrians. You should only start to cross the road when the green figure shows.

24. When the road is congested, traffic on your side of the road may be forced to stop even though their lights are green. Traffic may still be moving on the other side of the road, so press the button and wait for the signal to cross.

the first line from your link

"A horn should only be used when warning someone of danger, not to indicate your annoyance at a manner of driving."

which is what i used it for, not annoyance, i beeped her because she was walking out in front of my moving car with her small children!

You're in the wrong when crossing a road? Where do people come out with this crap? Drivers always have the responsibility not to endanger other road users.

If you drive, the safety of other road users is always your responsibility. FFS, some people shouldn't be allowed to get behind a wheel at all. The HC isn't the fucking Bible.

"It absolutly drives me mad when cars slow down or stop without actually intending to give way to a pedestrian, as you seem to have done. "

but the OP stopped because there was no room for her to move off the crossing if the green man came up.

Would you have been annoyed to find a car part way across the crossing in the event that the lights had changed? What about if there was a yellow box just after the crossing and the OP just drove on to it with no way of getting off it?

YANBU OP. you did the right thing in the circumstances and the woman should have been more careful

If you're driving straight at someone, then you are the danger. Beeping the horn isn't going to help them.

Dora, you clearly think that as a pedestrian you are invincible. I hope your kids are more sensible.

You dont step out into moving traffic unless its safe to cross.