To support DS to break school rules?

[Woffa]

My DS's secondary school has issued a written ban on sixth formers driving to school and parking in the local roads nearby (even though there are no double yellow lines etc) to avoid upsetting the residents.
The bus fare for DS is expensive and the saving helps pay for his insurance.

AIBU to support him in ignoring the ban?

I think this is a reasonable rule for the school to make and yabu to support your son breaking it. Like smoking off premises in school uniform it may be legal but it brings the school into disrepute and is damaging to the school community and wellbeing. I would suggest they ammend the rule to say that no pupil who drives to school may park any closer than A mile from the school as the crow flies - exact distance to depend on geography and street layout but that's only 15-20 minutes walk and would spread the cars out over a much larger area as each driving pupil would be coming from a different direction hopefully so there would be a larger number of popular places to park each with much lower pressure and unlikely to annoy residents so much.

I would have been screwed if I drove at that age.

I left college and then went straight to work.

Nobody owns the road outside thier home. So unless there is parking restrictions or road markings then people can park where they want.

Parking is a nightmare in my street, so I'm saving for a drive.

I wonder where the teachers park?

My ds will be able to drive to school next year. Because he can drive he will also be able to get an after school job. If he wasn't able to drive to school and then on to his workplace he'd have to get the school bus home and the drive, adding over an hour of travel time, making working much less feasible, and adding an additional cost. Like the OP there are very few other transport options where we live.

The OP didn't say anything about the school expanding, and driving ages haven't changed either so I'm not sure why this has suddenly become such an issue that a total ban is required. Seems like overkill and may have significant impact for some families.

Nooka, should that happen then school won't be very empathetic, as your DS won't be legally entitled to work for many hours whilst in full time education They will argue, as will the LA, that he should work around his college course, not the other way round. Harsh, but those are the rules... as most reputable employers will know. Yet another rule 'for your own good' that is often so very counter productive when applied across the board.

For others insisting that the school cannot do this, I can only repeat, such stuff is my job, I know that, whilst it is highly unlikely and the school won't actively patrol looking for offenders, should a student be reported over and over again and show a 'fuck you' attitude when in tutorial, the school can follow their usual disciplinary route, which could lead to suspension and expulsion.

I have explained why. I am not guessing or hypothesising. As I said, this is my job. Dealing with students and parents who insist they are right and we are wrong is my job. Discussions such as this happen in my office on an almost daily basis.

It may seem archaic, nanny state and ridiculous but there are social and financial reasons behind all such draconian sounding decisions. Schools and colleges have a lot more they are expected to achieve that just keep kids in classrooms. Keeping the neighbours happy is just one of those things.

So if a school decides to 'ban' driving to school they can. It may be a daft idea, it may unpoliceable, but, as I said earlier, it may be part of a larger plan to remedy the situation, a hoop they have to jump through in order to come to a final, sensible solution. Frothing at the mouth won't solve it, sensible parking will!

LazyLouLou, am I right in thinking you work in a FE college rather than a school? I suspect the rules may be different. The guidance to which I linked undoubtedly applies, and they could not impose a valid permanent exclusion for disobeying this rule.

i have not read the whole thread, but absolutely the school can and should ban this totally, and are within their rights to expel your DS if he breaks their rules.

Charis1, you are just plain wrong. Factually wrong, not a matter of opinion. Schools work within strict legal guidelines about what they can expel for and what they can't, and this doesn't even come close!

LazyLouLou, my ds isn't at college, and we don't live in the UK. It is very normal where I live (Canada) for teenagers to work, dd is even concerned that she doesn't yet have a job and she is only 14. There are rules about how many hours etc, but it is completely normal, expected and encouraged by schools as one of the things you should be able to evidence for university applications. Most kids put half their earnings into their college funds, and most work through their higher education too. Not that I expect anyone to know any of that, just saying that it's quite normal in other places.

Also I don't see any particular concern on behalf of the school that parking hasn't been 'sensible' to date, just an issue of too many cars perhaps. One thing that I note with schools the world over (am ex UK and have also lived in the States) is that they are often really bad at explaining their reasons to parents, so that rules often do appear to be completely arbitrary. One thing I have learned as a parent (and at work too for that matter) is that people are far more likely to follow rules if they understand why they are in place, and better yet if they have played some part in forming them.

I work for a university and we've found that codes of conducts written by students (for field trips and similar) tend to be much more strict and better complied with than the ones that the university or faculty write.

Icimoi - which is why I explained that only persistent reporting and a crap attitude might lead to such actions. Which is why I also said I thought it was a daft rule. I am just trying to explain that sometimes logic and common sense of an outside perspective simply does not apply.

nooka, I apologise for not knowing you are in Canada! As for the explanation of rules, if you could only see the weighty tome that we have that does just that, the parent/community liaison work we do, the absolutely amazing work the student council does.... yet still we have parents and students who do not engage with any part of college life/governance until they choose to be offended. Even here in the UK we understand that ownership is a great tool for understanding and compliance!

But as I think I am now just hectoring I shall stop

Any expulsion would not come from failing to park properly. However failing to respect the lesser disciplinary options that came as a result of breaking that rule, and those disciplinary options would be possible.

And I'll repeat again, expulsion is a valid option for activities which happen purely on the way to and from school.

I also can't understand the logic of using the car if you consider the environmental costs!

Worrying about the environmental costs is a luxury that not many people outside of MN seem to have, what with anything "green" costing more & all that.

Plus, while India, China, US & Russia continue to belch toxics into the atmosphere it's fairly irrelevant whether a teen in suburbia drives 14 miles a day on his own.....

Oh no need to apologise! Why on earth should you know?

I'm glad you do great outreach and communication, and yes I'm sure you get people completely unwilling to engage. Lots of schools don't though, and many school rules are quite ridiculous.

We had issues with my children's primary in the UK around homework (ds was really struggling with the work and often then forgetting to hand it in too and then being punished in ways that made his behaviour worse), when we spoke to his teacher she pulled out the homework policy which we had apparently 'signed up to' when sending the children to school (an allocated school mind, so not really a choice). We'd never seen the policy (not on the website and only produced because we'd asked about it) so really I don't see how we could be bound by it, and it was clearly designed for a secondary school as it was all about how homework (for a six year old!) was to prepare for working life (which I don't think is even true, certainly I actively discourage my team from taking work home with them).

One thing I have learned as a parent (and at work too for that matter) is that people are far more likely to follow rules if they understand why they are in place, and better yet if they have played some part in forming them.

This times a million. For example, at toddler group...

All food must be eaten at the table. - ignored

Please keep food at the table or in the kitchen so it can easily be cleaned up, otherwise we find the crumbs get into toy boxes and attract mice. - much more closely adhered to

As someone who lives near a school I would beg you to reconsider and ask your son to park a bit further away.

You may not think he is in the way; the cars parked outside my house don't either, even though it is a permit only area. What they don't realise is that the bin lorries and school buses are forced to mount the opposite pavement to pass them, and it has become badly cracked and broken.

Two years ago, my ds, then five, fell and broke his arm on the broken pavement. All his pain and his ruined holiday could have been avoided if school run traffic had not parked in our street and caused such damage by impeding access.

You will also find it likely that if everyone ignores your school's request, they will simply introduce permit parking, which if enforced will cost you £50 a day in fines.

Worrying about the environmental costs is a luxury that not many people outside of MN seem to have, what with anything "green" costing more & all that.

Well said. I wish I was wealthy enough to be able to do the green thing, but I'm not. And I'm not poor.

You may not think he is in the way; the cars parked outside my house don't either, even though it is a permit only area. What they don't realise is that the bin lorries and school buses are forced to mount the opposite pavement to pass them, and it has become badly cracked and broken.

Wow, your post is REALLY scraping the barrel. Are you saying it's ONLY local students who park on your road? Really?

gin

I expect the teachers park in the staff car park, what with them being employees.

Not sure how that's relevant to the OP

I do have a lot of sympathy with the neighbours, despite the MN mantra that if it's legal it can't be inconsiderate. A friend of mine lives in one of the very few roads in the area which does not have restricted parking, and has three small children the oldest of whom couldn't get a place in the local school. As a result he was placed in another school the journey to which is a potential death trap for walkers, especially walkers with prams or buggies - there are stretches without pavements on blind bends and it's a nightmare. However, if she takes the children by car her parking space has invariably disappeared by the time she gets back, often resulting in her having to pay to park a long way away and walk the youngest two back home. She's at the end of her tether and considering home schooling because of this.

i have not read the whole thread, but absolutely the school can and should ban this totally, and are within their rights to expel your DS if he breaks their rules.

Charis1, you are just plain wrong. Factually wrong, not a matter of opinion. Schools work within strict legal guidelines about what they can expel for and what they can't, and this doesn't even come close!

Completely and utterly wrong, I have known sixth formers expelled for this, and more than once.

I expect the teachers park in the staff car park, what with them being employees.

some of them maybe. it won't be all.and it won't be every day.

Worrying about the environmental costs is a luxury that not many people outside of MN seem to have, what with anything "green" costing more & all that.

pathetic. Walking is free. You intend to trash the whole planet for your convenience, then say "sorry, I had to because, although I am rich, I am not quit as stinking filthy rich as I feel entitled to be" ?

As someone who lives next door to a busy large high school, can I just ask that everyone parks where the hell they like? As long as it's legal, and not blocking in the residents, it's fine by me.

So what if the road get busy - it's only twice a day. I would appreciate though a little more room so that I don't have to do a 50 point turn to get in to my drive. And please observe the rule that says you should not park within 10m of a junction -

DO NOT stop or park:

...opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space

You could get a ticket for causing an obstruction.

This link explains why it's a problem: www.drivingtesttips.biz/nearest-you-can-park-to-a-junction.html

On my road (a small road next to the school entrance) if I want to exit on to the main road during peak times I often have to be on the wrong side of the road because some pillock has parked facing against the traffic on (to me) the left side of the road with the rear of their car nudging the 2 broken give way lines.

Apart from that, I am quite happy with the taxpayer maintaining my road. Feel free to use it.

How many kids in sixth form are driving to school these days?? My 6th form had over 100 kids and I don't think anyone drove to school. Not like they will be lining the streets surely

That HC rule BTW is rule 240. www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking/parking-239-to-247

YANBU.

They're public roads. Chances are a fair few of the residents will have left for work before the 6th formers park and then won't return until after they've left. I also wonder how long the school has been there? If it's been there years then the home owners more often than not will have moved in knowing full-well there is a school near by (thus meaning increased traffic and parking etc).

The school is being unreasonable .

If education is compulsory until 18 ( I think it is but may be wrong) then he is allowed a place at a school /6th form and shouldn't be expelled for not signing an agreement.

Also I think someone quite senior has to sign off on explusions don't they? Local LA maybe? Surely he can argue that his school can't withhold his right to an education because of a legal action outside of school.

pathetic. Walking is free. You intend to trash the whole planet for your convenience, then say "sorry, I had to because, although I am rich, I am not quit as stinking filthy rich as I feel entitled to be" ?

Bizarre. A lot of the 6th forms are several miles away from where students live. Cycling is not always a safe option either on narrow but well used rural roads. They could be driving electric cars and car sharing thus the ecological and financial impact being minimal. Probably better than disproportionately financially supporting a diesel bus scheme....