To support DS to break school rules?

[Woffa]

My DS's secondary school has issued a written ban on sixth formers driving to school and parking in the local roads nearby (even though there are no double yellow lines etc) to avoid upsetting the residents.
The bus fare for DS is expensive and the saving helps pay for his insurance.

AIBU to support him in ignoring the ban?

Sorry capsium, I seem to be chasing your posts, but you raise some good points.

We really do have to consider the local community. The threat to funding is not 'perceived' it is real. Number capping, downgrading funding streams, loss of student numbers, etc happen every year. Every school/college is audited on a wide range of actions and community relationships is one of them.

As for 16 - 19 year olds subsidising buses that must be run anyway... FE colleges don't have schools attached. In schools and VI forms the few hundred extra students would not fit on the existing buses and, in many cases, do not share the buses anyway. Funding streams being different and safeguarding issues being held up as 'good' reasons.

I doubt the decision has been half hearted. If you knew the number of people and hours that go into making such decisions you would add that to your list of things that need to be looked at and streamlined.

Lazy they didn't sign it, and if it is really that important to the school then they should allow parents and students to read through it before they do sign it.

£700 for a bus pass seems very steep

It sounds a lot in one go, but it's less than £2 per trip, which doesn't seem too bad, if you assume that school must be too far to walk or cycle. In fact it's probably not much more than the car costs, if you include petrol and wear and tear. Certainly it's substantially less if you factor in the insurance, servicing and tax.

But your DC has accepted and s using the services... so you are deemed to have accepted the T+Cs. You cannot have it both ways.

And all parents and students do get a copy, usually as a handbook and an online link. We used to give usb pens with a copy on at registration, but many students just threw them on the floor... 1mb not being big enough, apparently. Signing them is not the be all and end all. Registering onto a course is deemed to be acceptance. As with many such 'contracts'.

You cannot use a service and then expect to be deemed reasonable when you refuse to abide by the T+Cs.

It is £700 where we live, for a college 6 miles away. It is definitely a factor in where some kids choose to study because it has to be paid upfront, (if they have instalment procedures they don't advertise them).

LazyLou You seem to be speaking with some knowledge on the matter - this is why I make my points. If a student could be sanctioned just for being spotted driving to and from school, this is wrong IMO, as they could have an agreed parking space.

Many schools have 6th forms attached. This is where I was coming from regarding the school buses. That is the 6th formers travel on the same buses.

Sometimes the people who make the decisions cannot see the wood for the trees IMO. If it was up to me there would be electric buses for schools and their buildings would all have solar panels on their roofs charging them all up (for free). Then they would only have to employ drivers and get them serviced. But we all can dream...

TheFairyCaravan

I haven't signed a "home/school agreement" for the last four years.

Contracts don't work like that. You can be bound to a contract, even if you refuse to sign. (Recently confirmed in the ParkingEye case). Then it's for the courts to decide.

Reading this thread has really opened my eyes to what the word "entitled" means. Is there an inverse relationship between intelligence and entitlement ?

The bottom line is we can all be subject to a contract preventing us from doing completely legal things - either by our own choice, or by law - what do you think an ASBO is ? Similarly, in my contract with my employer, I am "prevented" from doing certain - completely legal - things. even though these would be activities I undertake in my own time.

Going back 30+ years, when I was at school, we were all familiar with the rules around behaviour in school uniform - whatever the time of day. Several pupils got suspended after arranging a fight one evening with a neighbouring school - because they wore their uniforms.

Registering onto a course is deemed to be acceptance. As with many such 'contracts'.

So, the college just need to show the LA that for their funding, they don't need the home/school agreement!

I only didn't sign it Lurking because they wouldn't let me read it first. That doesn't make me entitled, it makes me sensible!

I work in the much hated MIS (data management dept) in a large college. It is 'interesting' to say the least.

Sanctions of driving would be driven (sorry) by complaints form the community. I doubt any school/college would actively seek out offenders, that would be costly and, frankly, idiotic. So, effectively, only those making really poor parking decisions would be penalised.

For example, a resident gets on their high horse and complains about a legally parked student car. The complaint gets passed to the student via their tutor and they then both know the precise whereabouts of one of the parking mavens... any sensible tutor/student would take steps to avoid that parking spot. At that point nothing would happen to the student, just a quick chat. Any sensible tutor would also consider a second complain in a new area to be a new misdemeanour, not an escalation, iyswim.

So it is a bit of a daft edict, but one that might give some students pause for thought and would go some way to appease the locals, who really do have to put up with a lot, I certainly would hate to live near my job!

As for VI formers sharing buses, buses hold say 3 students, VI forms hold about 300.... they wouldn't all fit once the school kids were on board. There MUST be extra buses run, even if they all have a mix of students on them.

I can only repeat that any Board will have debated this for a very long time. This may not be the first, second or third intervention. In fact I can almost guarantee that the Board will have had meetings, consultations etc with local residents and this will have been the last in quite a long line of 'solutions'. I could almost as certainly guarantee t won't be good enough or the last time it comes up.

It is partly a 'seeing to be doing' thing, to avoid any financial penalties and may also be part of a much bigger plan. One local VI form went through a similar process. It didn't stop complaints, so they used it to support their plans for a car park, with the council donating a plot of land.

Unless you are on the Board you will never know - such stuff being sensitive information and all

3 students - should have been 30

As for the agreement, yes, it is required it is a legal document. It sets out the expectations of both college and student. But you don't need to have a hard copy or to sign it.

Lazy I have spoken on here about the possibility of having multi agency meetings using face time or similar technology, not long ago. The idea was totally rejected as 'unworkable'.

Now I know for a fact some LAs do hold meetings like this, (with schools as well!). Embedding the technology can come against opposition from users though....

TheFairyCaravan

I only didn't sign it Lurking because they wouldn't let me read it first. That doesn't make me entitled, it makes me sensible!

Fair enough. However, were you aware that not signing it means nothing in a court if you accept the services provided under it ? The only circumstances (which would be the same as if you had signed it) would be if a term was held to be unfair. However "unfair" would need to be decided by a court ... on your dollar (unless you win).

Going back to the 1980s, when I drove to VI form, I have a vague memory of having to show my license and insurance to the college before I got a pass. Having a road-legal car was part of the conditions on getting a pass.

^ with regards to the lengthy decision making process...

We live around 7 miles from the school. Because it is rural, there is one main route to the small town where the school is. It's a 60mph limit with a lot of lorries tearing round the many bends. He has cycled sometimes in the past, but it certainly isn't very safe. Taking the back roads pretty much doubles the distance as they don't go where you need them to (and it's hilly)!
Younger Ds won't be 17 for over a year so no double insurance cost, but he could get a lift with DS1.

There is no reason he couldn't park further away, although any more than one mile away from the school would be narrow country lanes.

The school bus is the same one all the kids travel on from our area to the school- free for under 16s then £700 paid in termly instalments after that.
I think around 25-30 sixth formers have cars at the moment and most do lift shares according to DS.

LazyLouLou, thanks for the explanation.

Re people saying that if you live near a school you should just accept it. The local primary has doubled in size and is currently being rebuilt so it will be three times the size it was 20 years ago. When we first lived here, 20 years ago, my children went to the school and most children walked. Most children seem to be driven to school now, it is a nightmare and it isn't a question of them blocking parking spaces. They double park and block the roads. A neighbour came home one day to find a parent had parked on her front lawn. We live in a small cul de sac, when my neighbours mother was dying parents who use our cul de sac were asked not to as they were blocking ambulances, which were coming out two or three times a week but they refused.

The roads nearer the school all have parking restrictions now because of the problems, similar restrictions are now being proposed for roads, like mine, that are a bit further away. The parents will moan, as they did when the first restrictions came in, but they bring it on themselves as they are rude, aggressive and inconsiderate.

It is also extremely dangerous. The school try to operate a one way system to keep traffic flowing and the road safer, it isn't legally enforced but parents are asked to co-operate. A parent going the wrong way knocked a child down. Her response was she wasn't doing anything illegal. This after she put one of her children's classmates in hospital!

OP if you support your son in breaking the rules and others do the same I think all you will achieve is parking restrictions that the police will enforce.

Personally I have no sympathy for people who bleat on about their rights. When are they going to start talking about their responsibilities?

My guess would be that there is not enough parking on site for faculty staff who are parking residential street. Now the residents are applying for resident parking and the school are hoping if they limit students, streets will be quieter and residents won't feel the need to pay for garunteed parking.

The school cannot dictate that your son does or doesn't drive.

capsium I wholly agree re multi agency being a nightmare. Luckily, as an FE college, we can escape much of the silliness, as we are effectively 'independent', different funding stream etc.

As it is near end of year we are getting new enquiries about parking/driving. We have a huge car park and charge for a student pass (£80 for the year, paid termly), staff get one for free and visitors also park free. We have had a very large increase in appeals to this. The logic goes that staff and visors park free, so why can't students. Our answer is that staff and visitors cannot use the buses, students can and should. We don't have space for everyone.

We also have campus rules about drivin. These are regularly flouted with a sneered "It isn't in the Highway Code". We usually retrieve the parking pass, issue a pro rata'd refund and ban them from driving into campus. As we are very rural and you can't park around the site they then have to make other arrangements. This has caused 2 (aborted) lawsuits this year alone.

There must be something in the air as we are getting the same complaints about staff using the gym for £10 per year, students pay £80 (that seems to be a standard charge round here). One parent made a long and sustained formal complaint to the board about the 'fairness' of that pricing. Her daughter was invited to leave her course and find an institution better suited to her needs. Whilst the student declined and is a regular gum user, her mum still finds things to complain about. The student turns 18 soon and has asked us for help drafting a 'shut up I am an adult now' letter

There is so much that goes on under the radar that it does get to be quite hard to maintain a human outlook. We really cannot say ODFOD, much as we may want to!!

LazyLouLou, that sounds like loads of fun. Never a dull moment in your job.

I have dreams of retiring and self publishing a 'Would you believe this?" memoir. But my boss would have to agree to add his stories, he has some crackers.

Some are just funny tales of the weird things people do to get/keep their child here. Others are horrendous, stuff you wouldn't even see on Mr Kyle's stage.

But I do enjoy it, usually.

Personally I have no sympathy for people who bleat on about their rights. When are they going to start talking about their responsibilities?

What about the community's responsibilities to the younger generations? The government requires young people stay in education post 16 yet post 16 the free transport stops.

Lazy personally I think it would be good if staff and students were charged the same rates for parking and the gym as the staff are also paid whereas full time students have no or low income although the buses, if very affordable, might balance this out. More equality might nip some of the perceived 'injustices' in the bud. It would be different if being a student was more of a voluntary decision but the government now requires it of this age group.

I would fight you tooth and nail over those subsidies, though, capsium.

The idea that employees must lose a benefit/subsidy so that students and their parents can feel that all is fair in the world never ceases to irritate me. I chose who I work for, they choose where they continue their schooling. When they get a job they too can take such benefits into consideration. Until then they all need reminding, right and fair are not the same thing.

But I agree wholeheartedly that the free transport really should follow the compulsory education age. It is ridiculous that it does not.

What's all this talk about learning agreements? I left sixth form in 2007 and I was never asked to sign an agreement. Ever. Is this a new thing?

No Ted. It is the slip of paper you sign to confirm the course and any add ons you are doing. It has been a legal requirement for decades.

Wonder if schools have form teachers sign them?

But I agree wholeheartedly that the free transport really should follow the compulsory education age. It is ridiculous that it does not.

This is why I say this. Unfortunately usually subsidising another group equally, is equated to the original group having to make sacrifices to accommodate them.