To want to know if the ruddy rail workers are striking or not?

[AbsoluteGonk]

Booked half term trip to London for DS, DN and me. Then heard about the proposed strike. Tried to cancel tickets but was told I had to wait until Monday to see if the strike goes ahead!

Anyone have any idea?

I'll say it again. This is not about pay or conditions. It's got nothing to do with living standards. It is about the unions making an attempt to assert themselves in the eyes of the new government following the election.

Iggle, your ideological stance is all well and good but so whimsical and utterly removed from the reality of what a strike will achieve.

Considering how unions and employment rights have been eroded too right they should be flexing the muscles they have.

They get paid loads - I know some train drivers, it is IMO a very well paid job.
I have to say I think the driving of trains should be automated - at least in the long term. Technically it is feasible.
They absolutely have a right to strike, I just don't think it is justified on this occasion.

Unions that protect workers that suffer from shit terms and conditions, yes. Totally agree. Flex away. Knock yourselves out.

Not the RMT and TSSA, whose members are paid exorbitantly compared to police officers, nurses, teachers...

DrDre you do realise it is not train drivers who are striking...?

And automation of trains on the UK overground network will NOT be feasible for 15 - 20 years.

Wouldn't you want to be heard and things to change for you? Do you really tell your kids to suck it up and be grateful for working long hours for not enough money? Don't be bitter, it's for them too

Margot - I'm not bitter, i'm annoyed and inconvenienced about the trip having to be postponed but I'll cope.

No, I wouldn't want the power to bring disruption to thousands of people's lives - it's immoral. For DS and DN this was a trip to the capital but for many others their train journeys are to get them to work, important visits to family, holidays they've saved up for. It isn't right that these Union members have the means to disrupt all that.

Don't make them out to be lowly paid and downtrodden.

That's why I said in the long term..
I stand corrected about who is striking - soz.

AbsoluteGonk - your post was how it inconvenienced you and yours. That's what bothered you. If you are so worried about the effect on others, you'd have more sympathy for those who strike as they can contribute to better T&Cs for all.

It's not immoral at all. Immoral is not paying your taxes, lying, cheating, exploiting etc.

The ballot was held before the election, no one knew who would win.

people are of course free to disagree with the strike but this thread reveals a huge lack of understanding about who is striking and when. Find out the facts before moaning.

The desire for full automation makes me deeply sad. You won't see any cut in what you pay, that's a guarantee, but you still want to see thousands unemployed? What a horrible attitude.

There's nothing wrong with automation. It has been applied to numerous other industries, why not rail? Should car factories go back to assembling everything by hand for example? I know its hard on the drivers, but you can't stand in the way of progress. I don't think it's a 'horrible attitude' personally.

completelytorn Indeed - The ballot was held before the election because they would strike whoever won.

I couldn't agree more with your comment about the huge lack of understanding on this thread; about the strike and the rail industry in general. 'National Rail' are striking...train drivers are striking...it's the train operators who are pissed off...etc.

Automation in rail is inevitable. We already see it on selected tube lines. At the moment there is still a very strong case for human interaction and intervention and this will continue for some time. A great gauge is to look at the Japanese; until they move to full automation across their we have little to worry about. We're 20 years+ behind them.

And the fact that so many people in this country have poorly paid jobs is exactly why we need more unions not less.

This.

In Japan the annual leave entitlement is 10 days per year, despite the automation. Thank God we're 20+ years behind! Check out their sick leave entitlement too. Then maybe you can find some other country's workforce to aspire to.

Because ultimately you will automate everyone out of a job. It will move on to more and more industries.

I don't know that I agree that full automation is inevitable. Certainly I think if it happens it is more than 20 years away - the investment in rolling stock, let alone the investment in infrastructure would be truly massive. Even a move towards more DOO, which is actually planned, requires huge amounts of work; removing all staff from the train is a long way off and I wonder how much public support there would be anyway. The DLR (which is staffed, anyway) is a long way removed from the rest of the railway.

I support the strike, but don't work for network rail.

DOO does not necessarily = removal of all staff from train. There will probably never be a full removal of staff from trains. I was talking more of the driving functions. But broadly I agree with you.

margo I didn't mention their workforce principles. I was referring to technological advances.

60% voted to strike. That's a large number. Striking isn't something you do on a whim. It's the last chance. It's not fun. It's horrible. Having been on strike I know how hard it can be. As for the poster who put the link to Network Rail that painted a rosy picture of the offers, well that's their side, and it's not always the whole story. I was going to see the Queens this weekend, and now I won't. Good luck to the strikers, and to the unions. So many rights have gone now

But Margi this strike is not about working conditions , it is about pay. I agree that we need strong and active unions but they do themselves a disservice by supporting people to strike who the public perceive to me very well paid and by unconvincing vast numbers of commuters who rely on transport to get to work . The fact that its a ban holiday adds insult to injury , many people pay thousands of pounds for their season tickets.

Sorry margo not sure why that changed to Margi .

It's been mentioned before, commuters can get money back for delays or strikes. DH commutes by train, he's had a refund before.

I Don't know what the salaries are like, but why would I want them to be worse just because I didn't get an adequate pay rise in years?

But many employers will
Not make allowances . E
Employees don't want a refund they want to get to work

No amount of refunds will enable me to attend this conference , and its not just about money it's about not wanting to let people down etc .

I simply do not believe that the RMTs case is good enough to justify this level of disruption .