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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to stay in current house even though landlord has asked us to leave? dilema

501 replies

arieschicke · 19/05/2015 17:13

I am a single parent with 3 dcs. 2 have complex sn.
2 months ago ll served me notice as he is selling the property. I have been trying to secure a private rental with no such luck.
The council have advised that when we leave we will be placed in bnb accommodation, then temporary house or flat share and then after approx 6 months we could be successful in bidding for a council property.
now my ll has sold the house and is exchanging contracts in 2 weeks. has asked me to leave by then. council have advised we will be placed in bnb. shelter have advised me to stay until the court evicts us, which means another 6'8 weeks here but the landlord could lose the sale.
I really can't decide what to do. any advice would be really appreciated.

OP posts:
Howcanitbe · 24/05/2015 18:45

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LinesThatICouldntChange · 24/05/2015 18:47

X posts there!
It's worrying how much false information is being chucked about on this thread. Museumum - don't listen to the people who are so consumed with hatred of all LL that they are telling you that you can sue!

expatinscotland · 24/05/2015 18:51

'She is a single mum with 3 kids and the idea of them being in a b&b is horrible.'

Better than sleeping rough, though. It's not ideal, but there isn't alternative in a lot of councils.

specialsubject · 24/05/2015 18:53

museummum is in Scotland as she said 'missives', so exchange of contract (England/Wales) is irrelevant. I know nothing about the Scottish system so can't comment further.

museumum · 24/05/2015 18:55

I am in Scotland. I don't know what people mean by "exchange". When we offer and its accepted the contract (missives) goes back and forth between solicitors who agree or remove each clause and then you "complete".
You cannot wait until completion before you arrange your move and your own notice or sale as there wouldn't be time.

LinesThatICouldntChange · 24/05/2015 19:02

So the OPs LL will presumably have given the date that he served notice? He hasn't claimed that the property is currently vacant, so I don't see why anyone thinks you would be able to sue!
Sounds like you could be in for a massive inconvenience and expense if this does happen to be the property in the thread.

lotsofcheese · 24/05/2015 19:05

Have you completed missives, museum mum? When we bought, about a year ago, the missives were done a few days before, which was very late (and stressful) for us. We were renting & only gave notice once the missives were done (on advice of our solicitor). It meant paying rent & a mortgage for 4 weeks overlap & was a killer financially, but had to be done. But missives can vary considerable between each sale (3-6 weeks is usually the fastest).

Ask your solicitor to check with the seller's solicitors. If you're renting, assuming you've not given notice yet (with a sale date of 24th June) & can hang on a bit. Your solicitor will keep you right.

DancingDinosaur · 24/05/2015 19:18

Get the landlord to talk to whoever you are dealing with at the council. I was in the same position as a landlord, and I didn't want to have to evict the person living there, even though she offered to pay the eviction costs. I'd already given notice and needed to sell the house quickly. After a long and heated debate with the council, they did back down and the tennant got a really nice HA flat a few weeks later. Worth a go.

specialsubject · 25/05/2015 11:19

off topic, museummum but the English system is that nothing is set in stone until exchange of contract, at which point the transaction is binding. We make an offer, it is accepted and then the buyer does surveys, searches, etc etc.

completion (i.e. transfer of money, handover of keys and actual move) is at an agreed time after exchange. In MN-land apparently you do it on the same day, but I've never understood how this is possible. I found even a two-week gap to be hard work.

Goatlington · 25/05/2015 11:31

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Izzy24 · 25/05/2015 14:02

What a vile post.

Is it also a golden MN rule to make sarcastic, bullying remarks like this?

NadiaWadia · 25/05/2015 16:36

Agreed. Vile and pointless post.

Also illogical. How is the OP a 'squatter' FGS? She has a legitimate tenancy and rent is being paid.

Guillemot01 · 25/05/2015 18:25

I would stay put arieschicke.

You can't risk making yourself homeless. It's going to inconvenience the LL but your welfare is more important, especially those of your kids. I'm a LL too and feel he should have served notice earlier if he wanted to sell. It's a risk you take with renting places out, to any tenants. House sales fall through, he'll live. Tenants also don't always when they've agreed to - this is the risk you take and this is why there is LL insurance.

To all the other posters berating LLs for not taking on HB tenants - most agencies don't let to HB tenants and letting out privately is a big hassle. Most LL insurance policies don't cover HB tenants either. I recently asked a letting a agency to manage my flat as I don't live in that city anymore...and asked if they would consider taking families who receive HB...but was met with a resounding NO. I'd rather just have a family in there long term who need the place and instead have to rent to "young professionals" who end up trashing the place when they stumble in at 3am and spill red wine all over the floor then move out after a few months. (Not bitter!)

Good luck! It sounds very stressful and I hope you and your kids are ok. You're doing a great job. Xxx

Guillemot01 · 25/05/2015 18:30

That was supposed to say...tenants don't always LEAVE when they're supposed to!

Maybe open up an honest dialogue with your LL as to why you are staying...it might offer him some perspective. This isn't just a house sale falling through...it the real and horrible prospect of a mother and her 3 kids being made homeless.

NadiaWadia · 25/05/2015 18:32

Guillemot01 but can't you just tell the letting agency which kind of tenants you are willing to accept? After all, shouldn't it be you in the driving seat, they are just paid to be your agents and should do as you tell them within reason. It seems you're not happy with the type of tenants you're getting from them anyhow and sounds like they are getting above themselves. Still, maybe most agencies take the same attitude?

Guillemot01 · 25/05/2015 20:20

Most agencies these days don't take HB tenants Nadia (well, at least in my part of SE London). I did ask why and their reasoning was that they "try it on" ...hmmm. I've had 3 sets of tenants now in the last 3 years who've defaulted on rent, trashed the place and sub-letted...all they do is do a bog standard experian ccj check. Not sure how I go about finding prospective HB tenants...may well look into it after this tenancy ends. I'm not interested in high rents...would rather there was someone in there for the long haul who would pay their rent and treat it as their home.

DancingDinosaur · 26/05/2015 00:12

I couldn't get insurance for people on HB Nadia. It worked out ok for the person who lived in my house, because although she was on HB, she was also a student. So we got round the problem with that. Its not always the case that LL's / agents don't want people on HB, but the house insurance can be an issue sometimes.

Howcanitbe · 26/05/2015 08:03

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PtolemysNeedle · 26/05/2015 08:32

Some LLs will pay higher insurance premiums, some landlords won't know that their tenant is claiming HB.

Rental and letting arrangements go wrong on a fairly regular basis and both tenants and landlords get screwed over.

LotusLight · 26/05/2015 08:44

Loads of landlords will not let to people receiving housing benefit. Why do so if it leads to problems and there are plenty of young professionals in full time work getting no benefits? And as people say getting insurance can be hard if tenants are benefit claimants. The thread shows why those landlords are sensible because of the way the law in Scotland and England is about being made homeless. If the landlord and the council can have a sensible discussion about rehousing that seems the better way to deal with this and the lesson for landlords is try to let to two people without children on high salaries who are probably beyond child rearing age next time and may be take a much higher deposit so if it take 3 months to get someone out plus court fees you have 4 months' rent you hold to set all that cost against.

Also where the father in all this. Could the children live with their father for a few weeks or one or other set of grandparents whilst all this is sorted out?

pod78 · 26/05/2015 11:51

Goat et al; it is the most simple and basic economics.

If a LL BUILDS a new property or renovates a derelict building they have provided a house to the market. I would consider that providing a service, albeit an essential one. If they have appropriated a property already in existence, all they have done is take that opportunity in place of (away from) someone else. There is a huge demand for housing; far, far in excess of supply, and many cannot access housing at today's high prices, hence the problems.

If the LL did not buy it, the house would simply be sold to another buyer; if necessary the price would fall until someone bought it. The sudden increase in availability of cheap BTL mortgages added more buyers to the market at the higher price, adding to demand and keeping prices higher. This is a FACT, not an opinion.

The huge long term capital gains are clearly the main attraction, possibly in addition to any monthly income. There is still a high demand for BTL mortgages and so clearly people are finding it very profitable and attractive - in the long run at least. I would very much like to pay say £20,000 as a deposit, £4000 in fees and then have the tenant pay my mortage for 25 years and then whoop whoop pocket anything from £100,000 upwards! Plus the ability to cahs inat any point and to use the one investement as security to generate several more. The maths is undeniable!

It is not about hating LLs as indivuals. It is about recognising that some behaviour, whilst legal, has a negative impact on other people and wider society. And yes to create a better society, I think we should think about how ALL of our decisions affect someone else.

So Ptolemys there is resentment towards many LLs 'as a whole', is because the problem is that nowadays there are so, so many BTL mortaged LL, who might be indiviuals but because they largely have similar interests they all tend to act in the same way affecting huge sections of society; and so their actions and effects have to be considered as a whole.

When you consider that mortgage holding LLs, have in turn their choices controlled/ manipulated by the (few) mortgage companies. The effect is in fact close to being an oligopoly - a few players having the potential/ actual ability to wield massive power. This is a problem - for society and capitalism.

And so to start with.. people who have the opportunity to make the investment decisions to become LLs, are clearly not so limited in resources to start with that you can forgive them whatever actions they may take - steal or go hungry, kill or be killed. Before anyone pleads poverty, it must be the case or you would never afford the deposit, be eligible for the mortgage or have the cash to invest!

So you have to then question their motivation/morals when they willingly choose a path that damages someone else. You aren't being FORCED to make a horrible choice between two evils. Unlike the OP who has few choices and all of them undesirable. Because lets be honest much council housing is horribly undesirable to most people; and many cases it's ONLY redeeming feature is security of tenure.

Water companies are not allowed to cut customers off for non-payment. AT ALL, because it is considered an absolute necessity. Same could (and should) be said for housing.

As I said before, LL insurance is a new product that goes hand in hand with BTL mortgages as the affordability of those mortgages often relies heavily on achieving close to 100% rental payments - ridiculoulsy slim margins hence some landlords panicking over one or two void months.

In a market where there was not a HUGE excess of demand over supply; these slim margins would not be sustainable eg retail. restaurant etc, and no insurer would accept the risk of insuring against all bad debts, except at prohibitive expense. Shops automatically build in an amount for shoplifting into their projected costs typically 10% because some risk is EXPECTED and a given. The huge excess demand for housing underpins the availability of insurance products.

2 months notice is an impractically short amount of time to find a new house. Even a high earner might struggle to find something suitable that becomes available at just the right time. Fine if sooner, and you can afford the double rent but what if not until the next month or 6 weeks? They might afford temporary accom at vast expense but what happens to their address for the bank etc in the meantime? You can really screw up your credit rating if you have gaps/ inconsistencies in your address history. 2 months is the legal minimum but realy does put the thumb screws on everyone involved. Just out of common decency it would be good to give as much notice as possible.

GUILLEMOT you could try contacting your local council and let them know you would accept an HB tenant. They may be able to link you directly with a tenant or they may point you to an agent who deals with it for them.

It makes me happy to know that there are some good hearted people out there Smile

Supervet · 26/05/2015 13:43

you must stay or you will be considered intentionally homeless even if you have notice to leave. A man near us ended up homeless and the authority stating they had a duty to provide the kids with housing but not him because he left before the bailiffs came.

Guillemot01 · 26/05/2015 17:17

Thank you pod78 :)

I think I might just do that once this tenancy ends. Most agencies I've encountered seem to be obsessed with getting really high rents over say 6 months and then the next lot come along. It is a hassle when they want unfurnished flat or then furnished, and you have to keep chopping and changing. I could cope with wear and tear caused by little kids too.

Anyway, back to the issue in hand. Thinking about it, the LL should have started preparing the tenant for this outcome at least 5 months in advance. Then they could have had more time to find somewhere. 2 months is not much time to find a suitable rental property especially with 3 kids, 2 of whom have complex additional special needs and he should have allowed for the possibility that she might not find somewhere in time.

I feel that private LLs should try and understand the tenants' individual circumstances and at least be open about their own. This particular instance sounds like the LL has been sitting on the fact that he needs to sell up and now is rushing to cover his arse and save some cash.

TribbleNamedDave · 26/05/2015 18:23

In some ways I'm greatful that I can rent property, but I do feel quite resentful about how high the rents are these days. I just don't understand how anyone affords it. I've had HB top ups before and honestly you'd think we were plague victims the way some agencies react. You would hope that with a spate of good references and good credit history that it wouldn't be an issue, but it seems that a bit of poverty superceeds common sense.

Howcanitbe · 26/05/2015 21:57

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