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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to stay in current house even though landlord has asked us to leave? dilema

501 replies

arieschicke · 19/05/2015 17:13

I am a single parent with 3 dcs. 2 have complex sn.
2 months ago ll served me notice as he is selling the property. I have been trying to secure a private rental with no such luck.
The council have advised that when we leave we will be placed in bnb accommodation, then temporary house or flat share and then after approx 6 months we could be successful in bidding for a council property.
now my ll has sold the house and is exchanging contracts in 2 weeks. has asked me to leave by then. council have advised we will be placed in bnb. shelter have advised me to stay until the court evicts us, which means another 6'8 weeks here but the landlord could lose the sale.
I really can't decide what to do. any advice would be really appreciated.

OP posts:
PtolemysNeedle · 22/05/2015 12:07

Yes, I'd got that from you already Annie.

But as the OP seems to have abandoned her thread for now, is it really so terrible to discuss the wider issues surrounding a situation like this? Does it make someone an arsehole for recognising the future implications of the way the councils do things and the advice that shelter are forced to give, or for acknowledging that OP isn't the only person who stands to be hurt here?

I recognise that it might be better for the OP and her children if she stays put, although I can also see why sticking to her contract might not be that terrible for her either, but my problem is with how this problem is being made worse for both tenants and landlords because of choices made by councils. My strongest feeling is that it's wrong for councils to do this, they should find other ways of assessing need and working out who is highest priority, because this way is damaging for everyone concerned.

PtolemysNeedle · 22/05/2015 12:11

Except that a private tenant who pays their own rent would be more likely to be able to find their own place without relying on the council, therefore they'd be lower risk.

The landlord was always going to want his property back at some point, he's not doing anything wrong by not wanting to renew the contract. He shouldn't be at the point of sale before his property is empty, but he couldn't have avoided what is happening to the OP unless he became a charity that aims to provide housing for single mothers.

PtolemysNeedle · 22/05/2015 12:12

I don't see how it's greedy to want your property back on the date that your tenant agreed to.

annielouise · 22/05/2015 12:13

If you can't recognise that this topic can't be solved on an internet thread then I don't know what to think. There are so many factors to take into account I wouldn't even know where to begin. You go ahead and debate it if you want but nothing you've come up with so far is a complete solution.

Sometimes one person/family takes precedence over the interests of another and this is one such case. If you can't see that and realise how crap going into a B&B would be for two kids with SN and will be so much worse than for the LL then I can't respect anything you say. I mean, really, who gives a fuck about a LL when 2 kids are going into a B&B, let alone the other kid? You have no concept of what that means clearly. It's like talking to a brick wall with you people.

PtolemysNeedle · 22/05/2015 12:20

Of course it can't be solved, but it can be discussed. I'm not trying to run the country through mums net FFS, it's just conversation.

I have never said that it's going to be worse for the LL, but if you're too small minded to see that in situations like this there could be negative and difficult consequences for the LL, which you clearly are if you say who gives a fuck about a LL (who for all you know has disabled children of his own) then you're right. It is like talking to a brick.

I have every sympathy with the ops situation, but I don't think that the world has to revolve around us single mothers, even those of us who have dc with SN.

annielouise · 22/05/2015 12:25

It was greedy that he wanted rent up until the last minute and didn't factor in that the OP might not have somewhere to go to - that's a risk LLs need to take on board and accept. Or they could give notice in plenty of time, allow the tenant to move out in 2 months or accept it might take longer through the court process, and not risk their sale. He was greedy and took it up to the wire.

It's greedy for people to so willingly discard two kids with SN into a B&B just because the LL wants his property back on a certain date even though and regardless that they don't have anywhere else to go. Luckily the law prevents LLs fulfilling this greed by making them follow an eviction process and not forcing the tenant out on the day the tenancy notice ends if they have nowhere to go.

It's greedy if people think the LL should have more rights than the tenant that has nowhere to go.

annielouise · 22/05/2015 12:29

But it's stupid conversation that can't be solved. And it's boring for other people to have to keep pointing out things that you can't seem to work out yourself. You keep saying things that with a bit of thought can be discounted but you don't get it. It's like asking someone to be your brain and think things through for you.

Yes, the world in this case does have to "revolve" about this single mother, if that's how you'd like to describe it (I'd rather a civilised society protecting the weak), as otherwise she'll be homeless. But that means nothing to you as there is the LL to think about.

annielouise · 22/05/2015 12:32

We could come up with any number of scenarios for the LL. So what? We're never going to know. I'm not going to discuss some hypothetical situation when we've got the facts on the tenant's situation.

HeyDuggee · 22/05/2015 12:33

Yes Annie, who gives a fuck about the LL. Never mind if he's a parent, never mind if it's not a him but a family with 5 kids, never mind the reasons they are desperately trying to quickly sell the house and what they might need to fund. Fuck him, how dare he. Serves him right for taking on an HB tenant, when many others wouldn't have.

annielouise · 22/05/2015 12:35

And quite possibly he's stinking rich and is selling to buy a fucking yacht! We don't know. We don't even know if he's desperately trying to sell the house quickly. My advice is still the same as is others - stay and wait to be evicted. And if you wouldn't you're either a liar or a mug.

PtolemysNeedle · 22/05/2015 12:45

(I'd rather a civilised society protecting the weak)

I'd rather that too, which is why I was pondering on a discussion forum ideas that might help make that happen, and why I think the system that councils are choosing to use is bollocks.

PtolemysNeedle · 22/05/2015 12:48

A liar or a mug? No, thankfully there are tenants out there that are prepared to stick to the terms they agreed to.

Those that can't should be helped, but we should also acknowledge that within the current system, they are making it worse for the next person that finds themselves in similar circumstances.

OhMrGove · 22/05/2015 12:59

This is appalling for everyone involved but the landlord owns the house and has followed the law. This is why, as a private LL, I never accept DSS/HB and only let to professionals without children

annielouise · 22/05/2015 12:59

Oh, just let her go live under the railway arches Ptolemy just so she sticks to the terms she agreed to. Yes, of course people are going to put their kids through this just to stick to a contract - don't be stupid. She's not breaking any law in staying. I think the laws on eviction override any tenancy laws so how is she doing anything wrong?

PtolemysNeedle · 22/05/2015 13:06

Yes, clearly I'm hoping that the OP and her children will be out on the streets. Hmm

The OP may not be breaking any law in staying as long as she continues to pay rent, but that doesn't make it morally right if she can get conformation that the council will stick to their word and provide her with accommodation on the date her contract ends.

And we are allowed to disagree with laws sometimes you know, it's allowed.

If the OP stays when she has somewhere to go then by doing right by her children she is doing wrong by someone else. That's fair enough, I think all of us would put our own children first. But that doesn't automatically mean that the LL is wrong or is completely undeserving of consideration, which is the stance you seem to be taking.

agilevangelista · 22/05/2015 13:09

as I mentioned before even if your not a HB tenant in London it is still difficult. my ll wants to sell or re rent with higher rent but has done nothing. we have been here for almost a year without a contract. in London paying £2k a month for a 3 bed place in east London its difficult for us to save the 12 or 24k to move.
we offered more money IG he wants to rerent but want the house maintained. even the agency told us to stay put as long as we pay our rent and can put up with the decor/lights not working and broken soil pipe we can stay. I have 2 dds 1 with severe arthritis which pushes us up the list but council won't do anything without a section 21.
so its a catch 22
most if our stuff is in boxes ready for bailiffs but we keep waiting and waiting.

Freestripe · 22/05/2015 13:13

I do have sympathy for the OP too BTW. Although, most of it is at her children.

annielouise · 22/05/2015 13:24

I'm afraid morals go out the window if it's between keeping your kids happy or your LL happy.

This is part of the current system as it is that the LL needs to be aware of. If they don't like it don't be a LL or fight to change the system. But they can't expect a totally risk-free investment, nothing is.

worserevived · 22/05/2015 13:40

This is why LL are increasingly unwilling to take HB tenants or single mothers, which puts vulnerable people in a worse position. If OP refuses to move and loses him the sale she will never get another private let as he's not going to give her a good reference. That's not a great outcome for either of them.

CitrineRaindropPhoenix · 22/05/2015 14:20

the LL has brought the situation on himself by his own stupidity.

I was a LL and needed to sell the flat I rented out so I served a section 21 notice on my tenants before I put the flat on the market and allowed enough time to factor in a court visit for eviction proceedings if I needed to before exchange of contracts. The void period is a necessary cost of having to sell the flat - if a LL can't cover two or three months of a void period then they really should not be renting flats out at all.

In this case, he's decided to wait until the last possible minute to get the op to move out because he doesn't want to forgo a couple of months rent, so he might lose the sale instead.

suzannecanthecan · 22/05/2015 14:45

Citrine, your reply makes sense, it sounds as if the LL in question wanted to have his cake and eat it.

suzannecanthecan · 22/05/2015 15:36

has the property been sold with vacant possession?
Surely the landlord is at fault if it has because the property cannot be said to be vacant if the tenant is still living there, the buyer may be able to sue him for breach of contact?

HeyDuggee · 22/05/2015 17:00

If you read the OP, the landlord did serve her notice OVER two months ago, and she hasn't left. He secured a sale and hoped to exchange in 2 weeks (after she was suppose to have moved out) and hopes to exchange. Of course the buyer won't exchange and the sale will probably fall through. But yes let's blame him for not realising the OP was going to screw him over and refuse to vacate because she couldn't find any other private landlord who would take a chance on her as HB recipient. It's really the landlord's fault that he agreed to let the property to the OP in the first place. What a shit, eh.

BarbarianMum · 22/05/2015 17:24

If you read further you will see that the OP has been trying, without success, to find alternative accommodation and if she leaves because of the eviction notice, will be counted as having made herself voluntarily homeless and will therefore not be entitled to council assistance. Ergo she has to stay put.

For more info RTFT

PtolemysNeedle · 22/05/2015 18:27

But the council have said they will help her, so if she gets reassurance of that she has no real reason to stay. The reason she can't find somewhere else is probably because of people like her overstaying their contracts.