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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to stay in current house even though landlord has asked us to leave? dilema

501 replies

arieschicke · 19/05/2015 17:13

I am a single parent with 3 dcs. 2 have complex sn.
2 months ago ll served me notice as he is selling the property. I have been trying to secure a private rental with no such luck.
The council have advised that when we leave we will be placed in bnb accommodation, then temporary house or flat share and then after approx 6 months we could be successful in bidding for a council property.
now my ll has sold the house and is exchanging contracts in 2 weeks. has asked me to leave by then. council have advised we will be placed in bnb. shelter have advised me to stay until the court evicts us, which means another 6'8 weeks here but the landlord could lose the sale.
I really can't decide what to do. any advice would be really appreciated.

OP posts:
Newbrummie · 20/05/2015 12:32

If nothing else this highlights that BTL is frankly a poor investment, the stock market outperforms property at every turn and I've never yet had share certificates phone me at 2am about a leaky tap !

specialsubject · 20/05/2015 12:42

ehric once people own their houses, it is up to them who they sell them on to. That's a free society for you.

The OPs situation is one I was warned of as a possible by my agent, it happens in my area. So I pay for rent guarantee and legal expenses insurance. As all landlords should because it COULD happen to you. And of course you may also get a tenant that won't leave for other reasons, and you'll still need to evict.

references? Well, it should be possible to check up what happened. For instance, it would be easy to find out if the previous address had in fact been recently sold.

BTL is indeed not a risk-free or big money investment. I think that many do it because of the terrible savings rates that have been in place for five years or more. People with pensions will be exposed enough to the stock market.

worridmum · 20/05/2015 14:30

I am not a landlord but wondering can a landlord sue the tennant for the legal costs of forcing through an evicition (if the depoist is not big enough to cover it or is the eviction process / over staying not deemed acceptable deduction of the deposit because otherwise it seems mightly unfair for LLs to foot the bill for stupid antiquaited laws

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 20/05/2015 14:50

How can they sue the tenant if the tenant has no money?
And of course they can't - if the tenant isn't breaking the law then how can they be sued?

GymBum · 20/05/2015 14:50

Suzannecanthecan out of interest, what exactly have I said that shocks you?

Pod my thoughts aren't about saving myself. This is how I now earn my living and I choose to expand my book instead of going back to working ridiculous hours in my old role. I can earn a living and spend a lot more time with DD than I ever could previously. I knew/know the risks and I have been bitten. What I didn't account for was the vilification of all LL regardless of whether or not some of us try to do the right thing. From some of the posts on here we are all "greedy, exploitive, selfish and we should read papers and get our heads out of our arse". I wouldn't want to work with people in an office or any other environment that said this about me. Why would I do business with them now.

I understand I have a social responsibility in what I do but I also need a decent return. No one works for nothing. There are bad LL the same as there are bad tenants (HB or not). I think some people need to remember that.

Op I really hope things work out for you. Flowers

Damnautocorrect · 20/05/2015 14:50

I have heard of tenants offering and paying the court costs themselves.

In fairness, it shouldn't have to get to any court for someone who is going to be homeless to be housed.

LaLaLaaaa · 20/05/2015 14:53

I really feel for you OP, what an awful situation to be in and you obviously feel badly for the situation you may possibly need to put your LL in also.

I was a LL and have to back up those who are saying we're not all rich fat cats. We had to move cities because of my job and stood to lose £20k on our flat due to the housing market dip, so we let out the flat instead. We made a loss on it every month as the rent didn't cover the mortgage.

When we did decide that enough was enough and the market had recovered enough to sell (we still made a loss not as much as £20k) we had to give our lovely tenants notice. If they had not been able to vacate it could have caused us even more money lost.

But at the same time it's not the OPs fault that the system works the way it does. It just feels so utterly unfair to put her in this position and this thread has opened my eyes to the fact that this happens! I feel sorry both for the OP and the LL and am angry on both your behalf!

pod78 · 20/05/2015 16:13

Gymbum, I'm sure you must know that people are generalising about landlords' poor behaviour because it IS very much true of the majority of landlords.

You are just taking it personally when most posters are just feeling very concerned and worried for the OP and for renters in general given the apalling housing situation in this country.

And yet because of a few comments on a forum you are now thinking of rejecting all HB tenants in future? That just supports what others have said about the unprofessionalism of some BTL landlords and shows your true colours I think.

Can anyone confirm whether they have written to their MP yet? Grin

suzannecanthecan · 20/05/2015 16:17

Suzannecanthecan out of interest, what exactly have I said that shocks you?

I don't know Gymbum, what have I said that makes you think that you said something which shocks me?

GymBum · 20/05/2015 16:22

Pod I wouldn't stop offering tenancies to HBs I just felt my perception was been affected. That's all. I get really pissed off with shitty LL too. They give us all a bad name.

GymBum · 20/05/2015 16:24

Suzannecanthancan. I was responding to your post below.

really shocked at the comments from landlords

OurGlass · 20/05/2015 16:26

You've been given plenty of notice. It would be completely morally wrong to do this to the landlord. Can't believe you've even considered it.

suzannecanthecan · 20/05/2015 16:29

of course everyone who is in business wants to make a profit, but if you cant make it pay then your business isn't viable.
If you are a landlord who isnt able to charge enough rent to cover your costs then you clearly didn't look into things carefully enough.

In this situation:
I was a LL and have to back up those who are saying we're not all rich fat cats. We had to move cities because of my job and stood to lose £20k on our flat due to the housing market dip, so we let out the flat instead. We made a loss on it every month as the rent didn't cover the mortgage
you bought when the stock was overvalued, bad decision on your part

suzannecanthecan · 20/05/2015 16:32

That was pages ago Gym and I didn't name you specifically

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 20/05/2015 16:36

OurGlass
Have you even read the thread. Even Landlords on the thread are generally saying she should stay put because she has no choice.

The immoral thing here is that the council will not rehouse a family including two DC with SN who are in imminent danger of homelessness until they are actually homeless.

The OP has every right to put the physical and mental wellbeing of her DC ahead of the economic wellbeing of her landlord.

I am a landlord and I can see she has no other option but wait for eviction if the council won't make her a formal offer until she is evicted.

GymBum · 20/05/2015 16:37

I see. I was catching up and thought you meant all LL that had comment on the thread.

sharonthewaspandthewineywall · 20/05/2015 16:38

Glass wtf? You think the OP should ignore legal advice and become intentionally homeless because you think it's immoral?

suzannecanthecan · 20/05/2015 16:41

no sorry Gym, I was just referring to some comments, I agree I might have been more specific Wink

OurGlass · 20/05/2015 16:50

Sorry people, very tired and thought there was only 1 page.

annielouise · 20/05/2015 16:53

Gymbum, the advice given to the OP by Shelter and others on here to stay in the property until evicted is standard. Why you're shocked by people giving the OP this advice I don't know, especially as you say you're a professional LL, so yes I stand by my statement people need to read the paper and get their heads out their arses and realise there is a housing crisis which is forcing the OP to do what she's doing as she has no choice. What the OP is going through is happening to LLs all over, yet for some reason you seem shocked by the advice on the standard procedure.

Certain things you've said like "starting to twist my view of potential HB tenants" and "some of the advise been given here is sadly starting to make me reconsider my view on HB tenants" underlines that some LLs can be selfish as you've insensitively written this on a thread where a woman doesn't know where she'll be living next month with 3 kids, 2 with SN. A LL's needs don't supersede a tenant's, especially not in a case of a vulnerable family. So who should people be sympathising with? It's obviously not the LL who still has a roof over his head.

There's a problem with LLs still considering properties they rent out as "theirs". It's not and they need to get that into their heads. They relinquish that when they rent it out to a tenant whose home it becomes - they are not doing the tenant a favour, it's a business transaction. LLs don't have the right to show people round in the last two months or last month, even if it's written into the contract - permission is at the discretion of the tenant. Why should tenants be treated as second class people having to put up with stuff like that just because they don't own the property? They're paying for it through rent - i.e. it is theirs for the period they rent it for and are entitled to sole possession and quiet enjoyment. By rights that means LLs could have a void period at the end of each tenancy and there's nothing they can do about it.

Gymbum you talk about trying to do the "right thing". There is technically no "right thing", as if you're dispensing a favour and being generous and nice. There are things that you are required to by law as tenants have rights in law. Following the law is not you doing the "right thing", as if you're a nice LL; you'll basically be in trouble if you don't follow the letter of the law. In this case the tenant has the right to stay in the property until evicted. It's the law. The LL can grumble all he wants but she's breaking no laws.

StupidBloodyKindle · 20/05/2015 17:13

I'm a nice landlord thanks very much. Don't recall it being the law to let my tenant have a pet, or for me to upgrade to a brand new heater rather than just fixing old one, or argue with the bank to allow tenant to renew lease when on HB (often it is the bank not allowing it, not the LL), or not doing a rent increase in 5 years...

annielouise · 20/05/2015 17:17

And you do this Stupid as you've probably got a nice and decent tenant so it's quid pro quo - it works for both of you.

StupidBloodyKindle · 20/05/2015 17:20

...but I am one of the accidental landlords in this thread who employs an agency to make sure tenants' rights are protected with deposit scheme and who has insurance to cover me for loss of rent. I break even each month, it's not a profit-making business for me. I would hope that my tenant would move out if given notice but fully accept that legally she doesn't have to. It would be leaving me and three kids homeless however. Not sure what we would do, presumably kip on relatives' sofa for three months.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 20/05/2015 17:22

My sympathies OP.... We had similar situation altho not with kids. It did work out ok.

Take shelter's advice.... We did. The moral position does not come into it. Your only responsibility is to your family!

The extra weeks may be useful for you!

annielouise · 20/05/2015 17:27

Stupid, I don't know why it would make you homeless. Are you talking about if you wanted to move back into the property and had given notice to wherever you're currently renting? In that case you stay put until the eviction proceedings have worked themselves through. Your insurance would cover you for any loss of rent.