To have called this lad "black"...

[ExitStageLeft]

Genuinely unsure about this and need the bluntness of AIBU.

I work at a college, was working with a group of young men and one wandered off. I poked my head back into the office and asked if anyone had seen the missing student. My colleague asked what he looked like and I said:

"He's wearing a denim jacket, got dark rimmed glasses on â?? black lad."

My colleague was shocked I used his colour to describe him.

Totally prepared to be told AIBU...not in the least bit racist and will be quite embarrassed if I've got it to wrong....

GO!

I think the OP was right to say "black", because it was for a purpose: to identify the person, as well as mentioning other things. Also, out of interest, was the person who made the objection black? Sometimes the knee-jerk cries of "that's racist!" comes from the white person.

I think what some people find objectionable is when skin colour is mentioned if it's not relevant at all. For example, suppose the OP was talking about the pupil's homework, and mentioned that he was black, it would have no relevance then. (Think of the way the DM constantly mentions the price of someone's house, when it has no relevance, apart from to fuel prejudice.)

As for the word "black" itself, I lived for many years in south London, worked with a lot of black people, and among those I knew, there was no doubt that the correct word for all to use was "black"; preferably said without hesitation. A pause, or the word "coloured" implied there was a problem.

It was a whole different set of rules for black people referring to each other; I sometimes heard black people referring to themselves using the N-word. I also heard black people cheerfully say things like "Oh, it's black person's timekeeping," when they meant lateness. I'm not sure if white people would get away with using the same phrase though!

"Black" is the preferred word, according to my friend who is an academic who works on race. She is herself black and would describe herself as such without hesitation. "Person of colour" is a positive American phrase, but is not universally accepted here (perhaps because "coloured" is derogatory).

I would imagine that the OP would equally describe a person as "white" in the same situation - of physical/visual identification, in a multicultural school.

Maid I think you've got a good point, although I can see the different racial characteristics (for want of a better term) you describe, I wouldn't know which nationality they belonged to - so maybe just lack of exposure.

When you think about it, the white population is actually a very ethnically diverse mix of people from Viking, Saxon, Celtic & Norman backgrounds. So in a way, referring to someone as 'the red head' is using their ethnicity as a description.

What's offensive about the red head? Seriously what?

On "spaz" I had a very interesting conversation with an American friend about this. The word "spastic" is a very broad term in the US - it basically means a kind of elasticity pf the muscles (think "spasmodic"), but can also be used figuratively - so a wind can be 'spastic'. The association of the word with cerebral palsy in a negative way is almost entirely a UK thing, and derives from an unfortunate episode of Blue Peter, which led to an even more unfortunate and unkind reaction amongst schoolchildren.

Black is absolutely fine to use! So is mixed race - I don't think half caste is ok to use but say if you forget (and are saying it near/with mixed race people) then you can clarify by asking them the correct word or the one they'd like to be used.

As far as I know my friends who are black don't like 'coloured' so I don't use that word.

Your colleague and partner are being ridiculous. I suppose they're also the PC type who think that a short person should be 'vertically challenged' rather than 'short'.

Happy nothing - that's my point!

Referring to someone as "the red head" is not using their ethnicity in the same way, because so many of us have red hair out of a bottle. It is harder to change your skin colour on a semi-permanent basis electively. And while red heads probably still do face some prejudice, in most cases it's absolutely nothing in comparison to the ingrained racism faced by those who aren't white.

Half caste is DEFINITELY NOT OK in the UK!! Jesus Christ on a bendy bus!

"Spastic" is a perfectly acceptable medical term, used to describe muscle movements that are not controlled/in spasm/rigid/stiff. It's fairly common to hear it in clinical meetings (if one is in the right discpline for such meetings).

Even so, I recoil when it's used. I also harbour a suspicion that some people use it excessively to stamp their authority on its use.

I am off to check if there are any journal guidelines on its use.

Also - in your scenario when describing if you'd said 'denim jacket, dark rimmed glasses' it could have applied to a few students like that in the vicinity.

This reminds me a few years ago - I was best friends for 7 years with a black man, we dated for 3 months never had any problems or even that many discussions about race, it wasn't hidden but I'm sure we didn't have in depth convos about it as friends, anyway one day I was watching something on TV about Eva Longoria with him, and I struggled to remember her then boyfriend's name so I said oh it's 'XXX the black basketball player, and mentioned his name...Tony' (I then forgot his surname) - my boyfriend got really offended that i'd referred to Tony as 'black'. but that's another story!

Shove - if you're referring to me - see what I said, you ASK the person if you don't know...

I use mixed race as I'm sure that's fine. Half caste was used as a term when I was a kid, back in the 70s.

Maid - I had this question professionally (I'm a writer/editor) and there aren't, providing it's used to describe musculature in a medical context and not cerebral palsy. In fact, from what I could find, it is encouraged because it's intelligible across the Atlantic too.

Back to the original OP, I think the colleague was probably less shocked at the use of the word 'black' and more that you'd admitted to noticing the colour of the boy's skin.

shovetheholly Thanks for the clarification. A quick NCBI search showed it in common (appropriate) usage.

Super - and my point was that there are some words that are so very offensive that it's not OK to 'forget' and use them 'by accident'. The n-word is one of them, and half caste would be another. If you're unsure whether a term is seriously derogatory to some of the people you are with, maybe not using it at all is a good idea?

Who is offended by my use of 'with an accent'? I use that to mean a clearly non UK accent. I have also used 'northern' and 'west country' to describe people at work. I am aware that we all have an accent but when the majority in a workplace have a south of England accent using the distinction of those who don't is often useful.

Arab is fine according to the Arabs I know, but there may be people who object. I've never met any. The Arab league, Arab spring, Arab coalition, Arab community centres (many), Arab advice bureau all use it so I'm going to extrapolate that it's acceptable.

Sorry, that came over more aggressively than I meant it to! You don't sound like the kind of person who would willingly offend people. I just want to be absolutely clear that those two words are not OK!

shove I don't forget! But there are some people probably of an older generation who would forget.

Wikipedia is actually quite informative on this subject (Arab is fine, as is Asian, although clearly Asian not a particularly useful way to describe someone as it includes Chinese as well as Indian).

wikipedia

Just caught up now, thanks for all your messages, it's been interesting reading.

I suppose I might say the "white lad" if proportionally more black people than white as there was (in reverse) in this scenario.

Yadnbu
My 'black' colleague was more ' insulted'
When she was described as being of 'brown persuasion'

noddyholder I would use white to describe someone who was white. I suppose it depends where you are. I was brought up in a multicultural borough and it made sense to say 'Sarah is the white girl with curly hair'. I suppose if I was in a place where the majority of people were white this would be assumed so I wouldn't bother using it in my description.

hobNong I agree. The discussion is about "distinguishing" features, not "descriptive" features.

What "distinguishes" the person from the rest? Well, that changes, depending on who "the rest" are.

If I'd been on the receiving end of your enquiry I'd have been a bit if the only thing you could remember about the student at all was his skin colour. FWIW I don't think it is racist OP.

Interestingly in South Africa "coloreds" is still widely used and is an official classification. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_South_Africa
It feels very strange to hear it in general use though in a working environment.

I once traveled there to work for a week with a black English girl born and brought up in London. It was an interesting week on many many spectrums. I watched herself tie herself in knots trying to be pc about not identifying people by colour after a similar event to yours OP [and being laughed at roundly by south africans of all colours] watched the initial confusion with black South African's that she could be black and be/sound English; the admiration of her achievements professionally by black SA's; and occasionally watch white SA colleagues ignore her entirely and be visibly brought up short when they realised that the person that they had come to meet, had been dealing with for months via email was black. V educational experience for both of us.

Interestingly, as she was born outside of SA, she is to all intents and purposes classified as white under their B-BBEE positive discrimination employment legislation which sets quotas for the workplace within SA.