To wonder why we don't complain more about long queues for the ladies loo?

[BeakyMinder]

Just come back from West End theatre where, yet again, the queue for the ladies stretched right round the theatre - 10 minute wait, spoiling the entire interval - while the gents was totally queue free. It's the same at every theatre, concert hall etc I've ever been to.

I don't get how this is still seen as ok?? I pay the same for my ticket as a man, so how come I have to spend my whole visit queuing and he doesn't?

I did a quick search and apparently there is an official government-approved British Standard (!) for loos which says that there should be double the number of ladies, because we take longer (and also have periods, might be pregnant etc). But most places have the same or even fewer ladies loos - www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmcomloc/636/636.pdf

And I also read that there've been big protests by women in China and USA about this: www.economist.com/blogs/analects/2012/03/toilet-parity

So AIBU to wonder why we don't complain more in the UK?

We should have timed loos whereby the door automatically opens after 3 minutes

pre Mentstrual needs may us into the toilets more often than men. Heavy flow may send some of us in more often than others.

but it still doesnt satisfy the question of why some women take 10 or 15 minutes in the cubicle. As Punk said, her friend dealing with a catheter takes less time than her MIL, who can't be mentruating EVERY time she happens to use the facilities when Punk is around.

It used to take ages back in the day (80's)... Those all in one bodysuit things with poppers, took forever!

I start undressing in the queue in order to save time. MN has taught me, though, how many women don't actualy sit on public toilets, they hover. Also many women claim either that they never poo in public loos, or that they never produce anything smelly. This all suggests that a lot of women must take ages to actually loosen a sphincter and allow anything out.

Really, the shonky state of the average post childbirth pelvic floor should speed things up and average out the pace. I know that there's not much time between sitting down and the world falling out of me these days. Alternatively it's already happened, in which case I probably will take forever to sort myself out. However, that's not going to happen during the interval of a show.

That's right, any woman who Takes Too Long should be severely punished. But we mustn't ask the poor ickle businessmen who make millions from running theatres to install more ladies lavs in case they start crying and pee their pants.

The age of the building is a poor excuse. If they want my 21st century money, they should spend some if it on toilets.

Modern buildings are as bad anyway. I used to go to the rugby at Twickenham but regularly missed whole chunks of the game waiting to use the loo. Once went to see U2 there on a hot day. I missed the entire set by the support act and then had to not have a drink for the next 3.5 hours to avoid using the loo. I complained; they said tough luck.

The O2 is a new building. Last time I went I counted 93(!) women in the queue in front of me.

Went to the V&A which has lots of new areas. Spent 40 minutes trying to find a loo and queuing. My poor 7 year old had to poo in a plastic bag in front of people in a corridor. I complained in writing. I was told it was an old building. It was mostly mums and children there but mostly gents loos. Unfortunately mums won't let their boys go in the gents to reduce the ladies' queue...

...which brings me to my biggest bug bear that the Ladies is used by ladies, girls and boys under 13 whilst the Gents is nicely exclusive for grown men. It would really help if mums would let their sons go the gents. My 6 yr old DS manages that on his own and if DH is around he takes DD with him too.

When I was at the 02 with 90+ people in front of me there were lots of mums with boys in front of me whilst the dads hovered at the inconvenience, no pun intended. We had a family sat next to us where the dad gestured for the mum to take the son to the boy several times
Would it have killed him to take the male child to the male toilets?

Can you tell this winds me up?

Hoverers piss all over the seat. Revolting.

Ancient plumbing does make everything take longer and could easily be fixed.

Really, who gives a flying fuckstain if some individuals take longer in the lav? The whole point is that averaged out over the attendees, there aren't enough toilets. Prancing about congratulating yourself on your Olympic-speed pissing or tampon changes is missing the point.

(Also, IME many men take marathon length shits. Still doesn't often seem to be a problem in men's loos).

I usually wonder what takes so fucking long I go in have a pee, wipe and flush simple! If I have sanpro to change I can do it in seconds. I stand in the queue wondering why some people have been in there since I started queuing and are still not out.

I went to public loo at same time as MIL it took me approximately 3 minutes and she took 15 just to pee??

It's one of the best things about being a man, hardly ever needing to queue for the toilet. I don't think women necessarily take longer; the fact is that multiple men can squash in side-by-side at one of those urinal troughs - it's not very comfortable and there's the inevitable "splashback" but it's leads to a far quicker turnaround than women can manage with the limited number of cubicles available. I wouldn't be so sure about football matches either; I was at an Arsenal match in the Emirates this year (modern, state of the art stadium) and the queues for the ladies were huge!

Would it be too hard for designers to study how long women take on average to toilet, and what percentage of women will need to toilet in a given time, and design enough cubicles for that need?

A time and bowel motion study?

I think it's been done.

Collaborate they have. See my OP. The recommended ratio is 2 women's cubicles for every one man's urinal or cubicle. The professionals don't blame women for taking too long, it's accepted there are good reasons why we take longer than men.

I can never understand what takes some people so long. What are they doing in there?

The fact is, there is no need to take ages in a public loo changing sanitary protection unless you're a teenager who's only just started using it. I've cited my disabled relative who has to self catheterise and still has periods. She causes no queues and no fuss.
I'm sure she'd like to use the argument of adjusting difficult underwear which an earlier poster used on here.

It doesn't fucking MATTER what other women do in the bogs. The reason there is a problem is there are too many men's loos and not enough women's FFS!!

Maybe the time has come to teach our daughters how to wee standing up. They have women's urinals at some festivals apparently.

Fluffy
Thank God for the voice of reason

Yes, beaky, but in the meanwhile why hold up the queue by faffing around unnecessarily?

I recently ran London marathon. There were female urinals in the starting area!! We were given flat pack funnels to use.... Was great fun

There are some people who inevitably just have no concept of doing things quickly and meander along at a gentle pace. However, there are as likely to be men like that as women,so even accepting that a small number of slow goers are just faffing, the problem is that women DO need better facilities.

There's no reason why there couldn't be a large unisex are, with a smaller single sex are in case some people need them (some religious reasons, or just privacy wanted). Cubicles and changing places, with decent washing facilities could be shared equally.

Remember going to a gig where the queues were ridiculous, and one (somewhat pissed) woman got fed up of waiting and just hopped up onto a sink and pissed there. The rest of the queue just watched her and then started muttering about how maybe it was a good idea, but nobody else had the courage to copy her.

If there are any toilet designers reading this (hopeful) could I just put in a plea for every toilet with more than a couple if basis to make one if these child height. It's a bugger lifting my little twins up constantly for hand washing and would encourage good practices!

YANBU, OP - and you're right that it has nothing to do with how long women take in the loo, and everything to do with what goes on at a planning stage r.e. provision. I think it's very much a symptom of existing in spaces largely designed by men and with men considered the default consumer.

A little off-topic, but I've also wondered if there's a similar "female-blindness" in terms of research for new medicines etc. Is the disgusting cranberry-flavoured powder really the best that cutting-edge modern medicine can do for a UTI without resorting to anti-biotics? Is a pessary and some cream really the best that can be done for thrush?! Etc...

Actually it does matter if women are stood waiting for some ancient decrepit cistern to fill up so they can flush and vacate.

Let's say it takes 1 minute for an efficient toilet to fill up ready to flush. That's enough time for even the speediest woman to have a full cistern ready to flush. Now if we have a system that is antiquated or poorly maintained and it takes 5 minutes to fill up then that means some waiting time before the toilet can be flushed. That means that it takes 2 hours longer for the toilets to be ready to flush per 30 women using them.

So it is relevant and it does matter and it is substantially easier to fix the plumbing than create whole new loos, which although is the optimal solution, isn't always a practical one in old buildings.