To be scared of how right wing the Labour Party have become?

[sourdrawers]

Considering the rout it suffered on Thursday has prompted demands for a return to “New Labour” and Blairism.

Apologies funnyossity I forgot to answer your post. Re: The TUSC (who have been labelled a 'joke' on this thread by some), I do have a lot of time for.

I didn't realise that Ken Livingstone said that but he was dead right.

Margaret Thatcher and her administration convinced people that it was not only shameful to live in a council house, belong to a trade union or travel on the bus, but it was the mark of an enemy of the state.

Wait until they fiddle with constituency boundaries. It's going to make things even harder.

We're an educated, aspirational, hard working nation of mostly conservative (small C) voters. I'd be shocked if Labour get into power again in the next 20 years and wouldn't be at all shocked if they're replaced by a new centre right party which competes with the Tories. We need a new opposition party.

And no one has mentioned money yet. If Labour had thrown £18 million at their campaign (as the Tories did) instead of £9M, it might have been a different story. The same applies to the smaller, poorer parties: if the Greens had access to that sort of funding they might have won more seats. It's not a level playing field.

So I don't think it's necessarily true to say that the UK isn't socialist - look at that link someone posted earlier about most people supporting re-nationalisation of railways/Royal Mail/energy companies etc etc. The elctorate seems to have some very socialist ideas.

We're an educated, aspirational, hard working nation of mostly conservative (small C) voters. I'd be shocked if Labour get into power again in the next 20 years and wouldn't be at all shocked if they're replaced by a new centre right party which competes with the Tories. We need a new opposition party.

And so is the rest of Europe, yet they all have social democrat parties.

True. When we've tried Labour here though we've regretted it. Every time. They can't help fucking it up.

I've never regretted it. Not once.

if the electorate wanted them back they'd be back. No appetite for Labour, especially old Labour, red Labour, socialist Labour. That Labour has died. The party needs to accept that, have a funeral and move on.

Yes it's as simple as that folks! What the hell are we discussing here?

Lol, don't write the Labour Party off. We'll be back.

Yep, I reckon with Chuka doing a Blairite dance back to the center and away from the left. I'll eat my hat paddy pantsdown style if I'm wrong

And so is the rest of Europe, yet they all have social democrat parties.

True, but Labour isn't a social democratic party. The "Gang of Four" (remember them?) wanted to set one up but failed. New Labour was trying to become one, but that experiment seems to have come off the rails.

I agree we need a left of centre opposition party. I doubt very much that Labour will ever be it. Possibly, it's time has passed like it did for the Whigs and Liberals.

thehumanjam

I'm surprised that Ken Livingstone said that about Margaret Thatcher.

Read the book - as I said, maybe if Labours front bench had ...

Ken goes on to say that before Thatcher, society was a pyramid. The working class at the foot of the pyramid could outvote the middle and upper classes. Then Mrs Thatcher sold a few council houses, and hey presto - we're all middle class now.

Ken goes on to say that before Thatcher, society was a pyramid.

Given there's only been four Labour governments with working majorities they managed to sustain for a full five year term, and three of them were led by Tony Blair, that argument appears to lack a certain factual basis.

"We're all middle class now". Wasn't Tony Blair reported to have said that too?!

Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair both appealed to the aspirational classes. I think the key differences between the two was that if you failed to move up the social ladder Thatcher branded you a lazy scrounger whereas Blair ensured you had sufficient benefits and set up a steering group to try and "understand" you.

Then Blair became best buddies with a certain somebody and it all went a little bit wrong...