To be scared of how right wing the Labour Party have become?

[sourdrawers]

Considering the rout it suffered on Thursday has prompted demands for a return to “New Labour” and Blairism.

As people have pointed out, we already have plenty of hard left parties, and they don't make much impact politically. To be an effective force, Labour has to be capable of winning votes - centrist and yes, 'aspirational'. Which is why Blair's 'education education education' played well, and miliband's cost of living focus didn't. We need to protect the vulnerable, but Governments need to deliver for everyone, not just the rich, or the poor.

Also, I agree, The Tories will both lurch to the right and tear themselves apart over Europe, and people will begin to realise that austerity is only just getting going. I find all this stuff about 'the sweetest victory' hilarious. It is going to be very messy.

It's not that long ago that the SNP were being called Tartan Tories.

Are the English that different from the Scots? Please tell me they're not

A good question. One I suspect would need a hard look at as you need to look at the different types and groups of people who make up the electorate in each area.

I would love to see a breakdown of who voted for which party with lots of details about them.

Then you might be able to say with a degree of confidence which party someone might vote for given enough information about them.

I cannot believe how quick some of the old guard have been in putting the boot in... Especially David Miliband..!! If I was his mother I'd be having sharp words with him about his demonstration on how to stamp on your brother when he's down - it's certainly revealed his true colours, and he's quite obviously been storing up that spiteful little outburst for a long time
I'm another Old Labour voter who had deserted them under Blair (luckily this era coincided with a very good Independent being elected as MP for my constituency) but came back to Ed as being much nearer the values that I hold. Goodness knows where I'll go now

Right wing!!!!!!

Bikket, are you in Wyre Forest by any chance?

IF Labour don't move back to the centre, they will never be elected again. I am a New Labour voter - although I did vote old Labour in 1979 as a first time voter. Labour elected the wrong Milliband five years ago. Thank God Red Ed has gone, he was useless. Too old school and not media friendly.

since we haven't ever really had a genuinely socialist party.

That's because such a party would be virtually unelectable in England. If Labour gives up on the New Labour idea then Blair may become Labour's equivalent of the Liberal party's Asquith - their last PM for over 100 years. It happened to the Liberals - there is nothing, repeat nothing, to say that it couldn't also happen to Labour

If it was up to me, I'd have shot every third banker 6 years ago 'to encourage the others'. I'd nationalise the railways and the energy companies in a hair breath. I'm red in tooth and claw.
However, I know the party has to broaden its appeal across England. If it takes another Blair figure to do that, I'd swallow it just to wipe the smiles of the Tories' faces.

SHIT! I should have said "Brown" not "Blair" of course.

MN we really NEED an edit key.

It is also easy for Scottish people to vote for a party that has no baggage from a stunt in office at Westminster. They are, to some extent, a protest party in the General Election because they have never been in power and cannot be punished for their mistakes. The Scots seem to view themselves as victims so can be easily persuaded to vote for the SNP liberators. The SNP never spelt out how their policies can be paid for except, of course, the English worked out, it would be them paying as the price of oil tumbled.

Therefore the Tory vote held up because of the toxic mix of Red Ed and Red Nichola working together - the parties of the left. Now Labour is so badly off in Scotland it needs to work out how to get electable in England. SNP and Labour policies are too similar regarding anti austerity and only one party is winning that battle, and it is not Labour. Labour is not a right leaning party under Ed. It must appeal to a much wider spectrum of voters to stand any hope in the future. Pretty dull set of possible leaders though. Heaven help them!

stint ... Not stunt

Ragsthe? It's not really helpful, or reflective of reality to say were a small c nation and a genuinely socialist party would have no chance! Simply because - whilst that might be what you and many others are, many others are not. Many of us are left-wing and yearn for a credible alternative to the Tories programme of austerity, privatisation and militarism, yet feel betrayed by The Labour Party, who I think, has only itself to blame.

Many people such as: Blair & Mandelson might agree with you that Labour should return to Blair’s strategy of winning over Conservative voters. But I believe the really big hit it took was that genuinely left-wing voters deserted it because they already view it as Conservative 'light'. (Also, don't forget almost one-third of the electorate saw no point in voting at all because no party has anything to offer them).

For me, Miliband’s minuscule step to the left was pathetic, coming from a party that was committed to austerity and just about everything else the Tories are pledged to. As well as it's history of Blair and Brown, the tools of big business and architects of the Iraq war.

Labour’s most significant losses came in Scotland. The SNP preyed on class anger against Labour and turned in a nationalist direction. This, I think, is what gave the Conservatives their success. By whipping-up nationalism, that spread over the border, (they also helped UKIP make inroads into Labour’s former strongholds as well). I believe they sowed divisions in the working class vote and attacked Labour for its defence of the Union.

That said, if Labour can't even beat the Tories who have already pledged billions of pounds in additional cuts and to rush through a new “snoopers charter” to strengthen the powers of the state and security apparatuses. They'll seek to step up nationalist tensions also, not only in the UK, but on the issues of immigration and Europe, then it's time to look at forming a new party IMO. One that can not only defend its socialist political aims against the inevitable, ideological offensive that will be launched against it by the establishment. But also can advance its socialist programme against capitalism, which is the root cause of austerity and war.

we haven't ever really had a genuinely socialist party.

What about TUSC? They did well in the last election, didn't they?

Looking at the way the votes divided throughout the UK, though, I think a new federal constitution is the only way forward. Then if Scotland wants to create a socialist utopia it can raise its own taxes to pay for it. And the Tory Shires can do their own thing. And everyone will be much happier

If Labour want to be in power and want to even be able to implement the smallest of social justice advances, then they cannot be a hard left party.

Its not the 1970's and that constituency doesn't get parties elected anymore.

I think Labour will and should occupy the left middle, Conservative the right middle and there will be a gap for far right and far left.

UKIP are stepping into the far right so I think a socialist type party may emerge for the far left. They will never be a large political force though.

THe SNP vote was not just about anti austerity.

Sourdrawers You are in a minority, thats why Labour should not try and appeal to you. They can't win an election by just being the party of the NHS, Benefits etc.

sourdrawers, although I'm a member of the Labour Party, I'm under no illusions that it's going to usher in a new socialist dawn. All I want is the Tories out of power.

Well it depends.

You can play at politics and remain on the fringe in glorious and easy opposition or you can listen to the electorate, change and represent the majority.

The country is neither left or right wing is it really.

British people are generally far to sensible and pragmatic to be either.

sourdrawers are you not attracted to TUSC?

Polly Toynbee wrote today in the Guardian about the New Labour achievements - why do Old Labour seem to hate this so much (apart from the Iraq war of course)

One curiosity about the noisy Blairite demarche is how they rewrite history to Blair’s disadvantage. Early Blair, pre-Iraq, pre-privatising itches and pre-jetset multimillionairedom, was as radical as the Miliband programme. These days it’s unfashionable to praise Blair for anything, but as David Walker and I charted in our book The Verdict, his leadership brought the minimum wage, tax credits leaving a million fewer poor children, NHS funding raised to the EU average, massive school rebuilding, standards and teacher quality up, free museums and galleries, civil partnership, universal free nursery schooling, 3,500 SureStarts, one million fewer poor pensioners thanks to pension credit, a child trust fund, education maintenance allowance, the Freedom of Information Act – and the soon to be abolished Human Rights Act. Don’t forget how radical many of these policies were after 18 Tory years.

It's a pity that Blair became so messianic.

That would be a minority of two, then shouldof. I could have (that's better - took me 3 attempts to type your name!) written your exact post. Even my local MP has suggested that New Labour values need to be resurrected. Don't know why I'm so disappointed with him, as he worked for Blair for years.

Saw this on facebook:

"So the UK election has been won by a party whose manifesto includes: nationalized healthcare including free contraception and abortion, free childcare for parents of toddlers, cutting income tax (for the rich and businesses yes, but not as much as for those making equivalent of up to $80,000), universal broadband, improved train services with fare freezes, forced transparency about pay gaps, and increased investment in wind energy and carbon capture. They also supported the recent implementation of marriage equality.
They have other positions too, of course, on immigration, crime, defense, fracking, corporate tax, etc, and should be taken as a whole. Even given this, if they won in America the left wing would be absolutely delirious with joy. In the UK, they are seen as the hard right.
You fly 3500 miles west and you land two ideologies left of where you started."

The Labour party at present is not right wing!
It is also at present being torn by apart by those who argue: "we need to reach out to all electors" and "we need to stand by our socialist ideals".
Unfortunately if the second win - they will not be able to get the English seats they need, and won't offer any alternative to SNP in Scotland.