to think it cant carry on young families living in cramped flats while protected pensioners rattle around in 5 bed houses

[generationrentsucks]

I just think with the Tories in now, nothing will change with housing, they will keep prices high by carrying on with these help to buy that just allow sub prime loans.

Also I think hardly anyone actually ever downsizes, everyone says they do but not many can actually bring themselves to do it.

We own our home outright. Do I get exempted from the Politics of Envy crap?

I will spell it out again.

Underoccupation of larger homes means there are fewer larger homes available in the open market/social housing stocks so larger families live in too-small homes.

Am I missing something?

I appreciate there's some differences between UK and australia but my parents/all their friends are retired and live in 4 bedroom homes.

They won't downsize for two reasons : the prices of decent units are almost as high as houses as they are all in metro areas, have excessive strata fees. Why downsize if it doesn't free up cash? The other reason is that you lose $50,000 in stamp duty and fees selling/buying in Australia. They are all keeping their big homes as a safety net in case they run out of savings - it's the last thing to be spent.

A tax incentive to downsize (duty free) and more appropriately priced and located units would probably help.

?Hoarding property so that others are deprived of secure affordable housing sounds pretty anti social to me NR?

Owning one home, that you paid for, is classed as hoarding? Really?

Actually I do know a man in his nineties in a house on his own with eight bedrooms. It's worth half of fuck all, mind, because the chimneystack is about to collapse and the house is in the middle of nowhere.

Someone who owns their own home who is required to sell is not going to just give away their home for under market value as a community service to let another family move in. If you can't afford to pay market rates for a large family home, then you need to look at alternatives of getting on the property ladder (start small, renovate, etc).

Somethingonce My parents' house has increased significantly in value since they bought it in the '70s, due to its proximity to the city centre. If they sold it tomorrow, it would more than likely be bought by a landlord (it would be a good rental prospect, due to its proximity to a hospital) or by a wealthy family.

Its sale would be of no benefit to a family on a low or average income. Even if they were buying houses atm (they're not) my local council wouldn't look at it, as it would be too expensive.

Hoarding property describes it nicely.

Look, I'm not actually saying that Comrades ought to force Boomers to sell their much-loved family homes, downsize and donate the difference to the People's Revolutionary Tea and Cake Fund, but I do find it a bit hard to understand why people who have chosen to have children would rather see those adult children paying through the nose to service mortgages on inadequately-sized homes (nice win for the banks though, eh?) rather than downsize.

I wouldn't expect my parents to do this (not that they are in a position to do so) but can't conceive of not doing this for my own adult children if I had the resources.

Of course it's a personal choice and I fully support people's right to make that choice. But I can still question it.

my h's parents liv ein Yorkshire in a large 3 bed semi, council owned. They haven't brought it, and have no intention of moving out of it. they lived there since the eldest child was born and see it as their right to stay there. ON their side of the street, of the 6/7 semi detached 3 beds that I know the residents of, they are all retired/semi retired sometimes lone person living in council owned houses all with no intention of moving. across the road are 1 bed maisonettes, many with 2/3 children in with 1/2 parents.

that seems inordinately unfair.

The fact remains though that council housing was different in the 50/60's it was given to working families and you had a real mix in the street, dr's policemen, nurses, factory workers, milk man etc. Whereas today council housing many assume they house the lowest common denominator. I private rent and have luckily found a good landlady, but I'd love to pay council rent which I currently half of the rent that I pay.

The councils need to build more houses FULLSTOP! not just 1/2 beds, but many councils need 1000's of houses to be built. The area I live in there are hundreds of houses being built but barely any for local authority or housing association. The houses for sale are £400k plus. Mind you no schools, shops etc being built either.

But genearally houses like my parents house is not that affordable even in the north west town they live in so unless you are suggesting they just give their house away I,m not sure how downsizing would help families living in overcrowded conditions.

yes it counts as hoarding
If there is a shortage of something essential, say food, housing, water should we let rich people buy up far more than they need (and in the process push up the price of the scarce resource) and leave those with less money to go without?

something

The only way my parents selling their property would help a family squashed into 5 flat is if btl bought it and rented it to them. Which isn't actually helping anyone.

But they aren't 'buying up' resources. They're simply remaining in a property that they have owned for many years.

Something, maybe people in big houses also had other assets which they've used to help their kids get on the property ladder?
I do think it's difficult to get used to somewhere small when you've been used to space. Not that it's impossible. But my dad worked long and hard to buy a house with space, in his home country he was surrounded by space. Think he'd go mad without loads of garden to potter round in.

Quite funny all this talk of over crowding.

My Dad would be 93 if still alive. When he was a child he lived in a two up and two down house with his parents, one set of grandparents, an adult uncle and three siblings.
So five adults and four children in total in a small 2 bed terrace with no bathroom and an earth closet loo at the bottom of the yard and that was quite usual.

Tayto, if you look at one particular situation it's difficult to see it making a difference but, across the whole country, increased availability of larger homes would stop them being at such a premium that they are an attractive asset for landlord types.

How can supply and demand issues (including but not limited to underoccupation) not be an issue?

Why are families in cramped flats in the first place though?
And why should older people in their own houses feel responsible for providing the solution?

Yes it counts as hoarding
If there is a shortage of something essential, say food, housing, water should we let rich people buy up far more than they need (and in the process push up the price of the scarce resource) and leave those with less money to go without?

But that is a totally different issue, if you wish to stop buy to let landlords with multiple properties, Then fair enough.

Saying People in there own paid for homes are hoarding just isn't the same.

" Why are families in cramped flats in the first place though? "
with the only really overcrowded family that I have known it went like this:-

teen mom gets housed with her baby into a one bedroomed place.
she quickly gets with another man and has two more kids.
they all live together in one bed place.

Think what you like about that. Should they have been rehoused into a bigger place?

'My Dad would be 93 if still alive. When he was a child he lived in a two up and two down house with his parents, one set of grandparents, an adult uncle and three siblings.
So five adults and four children in total in a small 2 bed terrace with no bathroom and an earth closet loo at the bottom of the yard and that was quite usual.'

Yes, so did mine. He thought it sucked. He is so glad to have seen things move on in his lifetime. Moves were made to stop this because overcrowding causes a whole host of problems, not the least of which was disease.

Never understand how many people think the past was such a great thing and something to aspire to.

This race to the bottom so many have will be the downfall of this society.

If we lived in a socialist country where people got what they needed, I would agree. We live in a capitalist country, so some people don't get what they need, and others get more than they need.

The Right to Buy needs stopping.
This government have plans to extend RTB to Housing Association property.
It is madness.

Here we are picking on and demonising old people instead of looking at the bigger picture ie government policies that have created the housing shortage.

I do also wonder how many split up families have two homes.
Mum and DCs part time , Dad and DCs part time.
This is the case with a family I know.

If people have bought and paid for their homes then there's not a lot you can do about it.
Bricks and mortar are the best investment possible at the moment so unless you need to move for any reason, a retired couple sitting in a big empty house makes perfect financial sense until they need to release some equity later in their retirement or the running of the place gets too much.

DW and I have 2 children and we swapped with my parents a few years back. Parents had our 3 bed cottage and we moved into the 13 bed farm.
It's still under occupied so what would you have me do? Force me to take in lodgers?

The bedroom tax doesn't apply to older folk. this is why the bedroom tax is all ideology and zero economic benefit.

why should i move because there are too many single parent families now and so much imigration? I'm sorry that its affecting you, but dont blame people like me - its not just down to us

if you live in social housing the reason you should downsize is because social housing for families is in short supply. This is why the government needs to incentive or make people move in social housing.

If you're talking about people who own their own homes, the government can't do anything to make people sell and downsize.

you are right they can't do much if people own their own home. What they can do is remove winter fuel allowance. One benefit of downsizing is that it is more affordable to run a smaller home, but with the government subsidising living in larger homes through the WFA, you remove that incentive to downsize.

However, the big thing is to have the bedroom tax apply to everyone, except possibly people so old that it would be dangerous to move them.

Expat: yes being overcrowded did suck for my Dad in the 20s and 30s.
But why demonise his generation for what some of them have now, ie a house bigger than they need?

The only people I see hoarding houses are landlords who are buying multiple houses/apartments and renting them out at extortionate rents. In lots of cases, our government (I'm Irish) is subsidising this rent by paying rent allowance for the tenant. So ultimately the taxpayer is paying. If the government really cared about the housing situation, they would penalize landlords. But they don't probably because they are all landlords themselves.