to think it cant carry on young families living in cramped flats while protected pensioners rattle around in 5 bed houses

[generationrentsucks]

I just think with the Tories in now, nothing will change with housing, they will keep prices high by carrying on with these help to buy that just allow sub prime loans.

Also I think hardly anyone actually ever downsizes, everyone says they do but not many can actually bring themselves to do it.

But why demonise his generation for what some of them have now, ie a house bigger than they need?

they are not being demonized. the tory government, which is more likely supported by the old than young, have shielded the old from essentially all cuts. all of the cuts have hit the young.

Again, another thread where peopel who have bot taken responsibility for themselves and their children ( by squashing them all into too small a property) are expecting those who have made adequate provision , to hand some of it over.

Last time I checked not only had Labour soundly lost but Communism was never on the agenda.

If you woudl like state sanctioned and approved housing, I hear Cuba is nice at this time of year.

If you woudl like state sanctioned and approved housing, I hear Cuba is nice at this time of year.

why go to cuba when you have it here?

All this talk of "hoarding". If we are going to crack down on "hoarding" housing, why not start with all the rich bastard nondoms who buy property as investment, never live in it, don't even pay council tax on it, and just clutter up our cities with eyewateringly expensive flats that stand there dark and empty?

In London, if you walk around at night, it's really noticeable that the new "luxury flat" developments are essentially unused, as there's few/no lights on at night.

But why go after them when there are a few old people living in their own homes to demonise?

'But why demonise his generation for what some of them have now, ie a house bigger than they need?'

I'm not.

I do believe that if there is a continued 'bedroom tax' is should apply to all renters in HA/council housing regardless of age, which it currently does not, it currently exempts anyone age 62+ and thus, the greatest percentage of under-occupiers.

I think it's a load of shite, anyhow, because there are not enough smaller, suitable properties for many, many to move to and the private sector cannot and will not pick up the slack for that. 'No DSS', 'no children', short-assured tenancies.

Tayto: yes, similiar system here with Housing Benefit.
Taxpayer pays the HB , LL gains and so do the money lenders who gave the mortgage on the properties.

Maybe we need the Chinese system of only one child or maybe two.

All this talk of "hoarding". If we are going to crack down on "hoarding" housing, why not start with all the rich bastard nondoms who buy property as investment, never live in it, don't even pay council tax on it, and just clutter up our cities with eyewateringly expensive flats that stand there dark and empty?

we should. we could have a foreign stamp duty and 2x council tax for unoccupied properties.

I know many people of all ages living in 3 bedroom property they bought. The majority do not have kids so only need one bedroom. You want to have a bedroom tax for owner occupiers?

well they will die eventually

ArcheryAnnie speaks sense - look at the Bishops Avenue after dark - empty mansions galore. Yet some old josser with a spare bedroom is being demonised.

Oh, keepitsimple, 2x council tax for unoccupied properties would be a brilliant and very easily implemented measure. I like that.

(And no nondom exceptions, obvs.)

It is easy to pick on the weak, we should be having a revolution against the rich and greedy.

Maybe we should all join the march on June 20th.

^teen mom gets housed with her baby into a one bedroomed place.
she quickly gets with another man and has two more kids.
they all live together in one bed place.^

Think what you like about that. Should they have been rehoused into a bigger place?

Christ, no. Punish her, punish her kids and make damn sure it repeats itself in the next generation!

I agree it's not ideal, but life's messy isn't it? I don't believe that significant numbers of people truly aspire to this lifestyle.

(Isn't this sort of mythical underclass-bashing nonsense, while always fun, a bit off-topic?)

Look, I'm not actually saying that Comrades ought to force Boomers to sell their much-loved family homes, downsize and donate the difference to the People's Revolutionary Tea and Cake Fund, but I do find it a bit hard to understand why people who have chosen to have children would rather see those adult children paying through the nose to service mortgages on inadequately-sized homes (nice win for the banks though, eh?) rather than downsize.

Thats 2 different arugments you have presented though. Sharing of wealth, I can see where you are coming from. Someone keeping something they own because a family is stuck in a one bed flat, I am not with.

BTL could be seen as hoarders. A person owning their own home is not. and oap selling a large home, will only help is a btl buys it and rents to the family with HA paying the rent. So will in fact help the actual hoarders.

Why do people want HA properties, rather than private rent paid for by HA. Because its cheaper and its more secure, not having to move every year. They want the stability. But that only applies to people who don't own their own house? Those people aren't allowed the stabilility?

And who say what need qualifies as?

And what about those who don't have kids, or whose kids have got big houses themselves? Are they allowed to continue having a large house that is bigger than they need?

The government can encourage people to downsize. What I would do is:

Stop the focus on 'first time buyers' (you're just adding grist to an inefficient mill) and instead focus on 'last time buyers'

I'd reduce/ remove stamp duty for anyone over the age of 55 who is downsizing (purchasing a property with fewer square foot) and also I'd incentivise developers to develop more bungalows. I know these aren't popular with housebuilders, but it's what the market needs. Most people (as they advance in years) would like a bungalow. They trade at such a premium that it's often not possible for those that want them to move into them.

I'd also stop the conversion of bunglaows into houses.

I am not saying that 'she should be punished' 'something', nor was I 'underclass bashing'. Who calls people 'underclass' anyway? Not me.
I was just asking for opinions.
Stop being so dramatic, it just closes down discussion.

March on 20th June, you say?

I'd rather see a "teen mum" with a partner and three children occupying a 3-bed council property than a single pensioner living there on their own. It's a far fairer use of the available housing stock to encourage people to swap in that situation so that everyone gets a go at having a family sized home when they need one.

And don't forget, that pensioner would only have got a house in the first place because they were also once fecklessly breeding children they couldn't otherwise have afforded to house. There's no moral high ground to be had- they've had their turn in a house. Time to downsize.

actually I knew this woman quite well. what her main problem was that she was bidding for properties as you do in her area, yet empty properties were being filled with ....people.....without even being advertised for bidding.

(Isn't this sort of mythical underclass-bashing nonsense, while always fun, a bit off-topic?)

It's not really off topic. If we're discussing whether older people who own their homes should have to downsize for the benefit of families in cramped flats, then surely the question of why young families are in cramped flats is relevant.

I had to move 20 miles away from friends and family to afford a house where we could have children. It would never have crossed my mind to think that older people in homes they own should be moving out to make way for us.

Sure there are cases where a family is in a cramped flat through no fault of their own. But I know people who have just not taken personal responsibility and that's not the fault of older homeowners - who have been frugal and careful and responsible.

But not housing those children adequately because we disapprove of their parents' life choices is, IMO, a punishment of sorts.

I'd rather pay tax to house and educate the kids so they can have a proper stake in our shared future. Rather that than set up a cycle of dependency, or whatever it's called.

Knowing that housing stock is a problem, why do so many people complain about the so called bedroom tax? It's what will make the difference, but it's a long term thing that will take time for us to see the effects.

It would have been morally wrong to make make pensioners move out of their homes, but as time goes on, people in rented homes will downsize as soon as their children are settled elsewhere, and then we will start to see the benefit of HB being reduced so that it only pays for what people need.

Meanwhile, we need to be building houses, and councils need to change their attitude that there's something terrible about living in flats and start building some. There's a huge amount of building going on in my area, so much so that it genuinely worries me how the infrastructure will cope, but at least the coalition government allowed building to start happening.

What should be done with the pensioner, SaucyJack, if there are no suitable properties in the neighbourhood? Should they be forced to relocate away from any support network, friends and family they might have there? Because that's come to come with both social costs for the people involved, and, inevitably, costs on the taxpayers as their needs for social care rise with no support networks in place.

i need to downsize from my HA 5 bed (yes,they do exist)....but my HA are no help....I'm told to find a swap! nobody is eligible to swap! my neighbour is in an identical house next door and knows a family who have newly arrived from their country of origin,given bidding rights but cant bid as no properties big enough ever come up! (there are 8 of them in a b&b/guesthouse,temp accomadation) yet here I am....wanting a 3 bed. why cant HA get that family out and give me the 3 bed I need?

they aren't allowed to bid on a 3 bed and all squeeze in,there are rules on occupancy etc etc..