To ask if you have had any contact with benefit 'scroungers'

[JumpRope]

I utterly believe that we need to protect the poor, vulnerable and those unable to work and they should have help to live.

I grew up in a very rural area, fairly poor, very hard work for non land owners - workers werefarm labourers mainly. And there were many people leaving school in the 80s and 90s and then abusing the system - picking up the dole, laughing about it, straight to the pub until it ran out; I remember a dog called Giro. People just sold a bit of marijuana for extra work. After moving to a bigger town, I came across families like this, where the dad would start it off, and the children would just grow up and do the same.

There were jobs around. As students homes for holidays, we picked up work without trouble, and could have stayed on, got promotions etc.

How do you deal with these situations? How can we make sure we are not making cuts to those who desperately need it, whilst absolutely changing the mind sets of able bodied men (and women) who have grown up believing they are entitled to money for nothing.

I thought it was 12 months now? (The age limit for the youngest DC of single mothers before they are required to work)??

There were several shifts downwards in quick succession.

On the other hand, I dindtt claim jo seekers after I was made redundant. It felt wrong as I had savings. stupid of me

Dooinmecleaning actually I disagree that couples on one low wage are better off.

DH was in a low paid job and taking in £210 per week after tax, we also received £110 tax credits so £330 in total. From that we had to cover £330 per month rent, £120 per month council tax plus other bills.

Now I'm on IS as a lone parent I get £193 per week inc tax credits so I'm down £140 but I save £110 per week with housing benefit and council tax plus I'm a person less to pay for so really I break even.

Also add on that we're entitled to 15 hours free childcare, free school meals, a £50 uniform grant, free multi vitamins and £4 of Healthy start vouchers per week towards fruit/veg/milk as I have a child under 5 and I'm technically better off.

From an article in the Cuardian

"£1.3bn benefit fraud in 2012/13
From income support to housing benefit, the latest statistics from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) show that £1.3bn was fraudulently claimed in 2012/13. That figure represents 0.8% of the total £166.1bn benefit expenditure for the same period"

How many committing fraud were challenged, let alone prosecuted? One in ten? Or if you want to be generous, i in 3? So that would be nearly 4bn that could go to someone who really does need all the help they can get.

IMO I'd be surprised if less than 1 in 20 were caught and prosecuted. Thats an extra 26bn for those in need.

If you think these thieves don't exist you are deluding yourself and colluding in the fraud.

Can I ask what might be a daft question please? We are told that benefit fraud is very small but, if so many people know of others committing this, is that figure just the tip of a very big iceberg? All those people are not in the official figures as they haven't been caught so is that fraud much bigger than we all think?

I'm in the camp of thinking the system needs reform so those that need and deserve the help get more of it. Sounds simple said like that but I'm sure it'll be a nightmare to deliver

I am unsure whether those quoted statistics are for those caught tbh. I know quite a lot of people who appear to be claiming legitimately as single parents, when the truth is actually much different

Also a couple can both work and have 1 partner at home all the time, one can work 9-5, the other can work evenings and weekends, it's what we did when I was with ex. A single parent does not have this option, they're either home or they're not.

Job options are limited for LPs. They're tied to working hours that fit in with childcare, making shift work unfeasible.

I can't believe I'm having to explain why being a LP is not easier than being in a couple on a parenting forum

Shitebag, unless you were paying mortgage not rent, you should have been entitled to a small amount of housing benefit when you were with your DH, based on those figures.

I didn't think uniform grants still existed? They don't here afaik. Is it a local council thing?

Toyota

You aren't entitled to out of work benefits if you have savings.
so not stupid of you as you would have been a fraud and maybe caught.

I know lots. From people who are pretending to be sick 'well I was but now I'm not but I carry it on' or people who move their partners in but don't tell the council.

It just to annoy me but now it doesn't because I suppose they're a small minority compared to the people who genuinely need benefits. And I'm sick of the 'scroungers' being used as an anti welfare state rhetoric.

Sorry Dooin I didnt mean to say it wasnt harder for a single parent to work just reg the benefits

We did exactly as you describe and it worked for us. DH worked Mon-Friday 9-5 and I picked up relief shifts around him whenever I could but obviously that's not feasible now. We weren't entitled to HB because of my shifts even though they were not contracted so I often didn't have anything for 2 weeks or so but we were comfortable with what we have as no debts or anything. I guess in that respect I'm lucky, I'm able to save some of my benefits because it seems like a lot to me as I know how to budget but if I knew nothing about money management I'd probably struggle.

I'm all for kicking people's arses into work, as long as it's into a job with a proper contract (none of this zero hours crap), paying a living wage.

Oh I'm in Scotland and we do have uniform grants in our council but not sure if they're regional or nationwide.

And with proper affordable childcare provision too.

Ive said it before - where are the jobs for single moms? Companies have to take minorities and the older generation have rights - so why arent there more term time jobs? Childcare has a huge impact especially summer holidays - this hasnt changed since my mom was a single mother in the 70`s. Thete needs ti be a change - single moms have a lot of skills - organised budgets compassion - but the jibs need to pay a real wage so they are better off by a margine. You arr under represented and this needs taking up with MP - start a survey?

That's what I meant Maddie. People who are cheating the system but not caught at it cannot be in those figures as the state must assume they are claiming legitimately so the problem may be much bigger than acknowledged

shitebag if you qualify for FSM in Scotland you'll qualify for a £50 school clothing grant.

Classic example today. Took DS for a walk in his buggy. Met ex student - now 24- pushing a double buggy with a baby and a toddler in it and a 6 year old who should have been in school but 'didn't feel well' running alongside. She told me her children are 6, 5, 3 and 1. (5 year old was at school). They have 4 different fathers. She has never worked. She has a council house.

She was shocked that DS is mine and DH's first baby - I am 35 and we waited until we were financially stable, had reached a good point in our careers and could provide for a family. She thought I was 'old to be starting' and that I should have had him 10 years ago. We had a lovely chat and walked along together for half an hour catching up. She told me about the other girls from her year group who have children who are 8 or 9 years old.

I wonder what that family is costing us? Her mother is unemployed and has a council house. Her brother is depressed, has never worked is 23, has twin babies, a 3 year old and a council house.

Is she a benefit scrounger? I don't know what the definition is but I think the situation is sad.

I wonder what that family is costing us? Her mother is unemployed and has a council house. Her brother is depressed, has never worked is 23, has twin babies, a 3 year old and a council house.

So her brother, who is ill, is a burden on you now?

what effect does having 4 different fathers have on her dc. she is getting what she can from a system that allows it. not good.

Lulu it's very sad - a huge waste of human potential. It's criminal that our system almost encourages it.

The benefits system does not encourage people to not work.

Why don't we ever focus on what went so wrong in these young people's lives that they feel all they can aspire to is a pitiful existence on state benefits? Why do we insist on trying to take away what little they have instead of focusing on what we can do to help them better themselves and build their self esteem?

No, confident, mentally healthy person would chose benefits over work.

I know someone who fits this bill who I will call John.
His parents were well off, and he was privately educated and went to Cambridge. He started training as an architect, but then his father died and John took over the business.
To cut a long story short, he lived the life of Riley, took increasingly large sums from the business which then went bankrupt. He carried on for a few years surviving by selling off what remained of his possessions.
He now claims benefits which he tops up quite substantially by doing jobs for cash in hand.
Why do I not report him? I am in the wrong for not doing so, but I see him from time to time and I just couldn't look him in the eye and chat away pleasantly knowing I'd sneaked on him.
I still think what he is doing is immoral.

No, confident, mentally healthy person would chose benefits over work

If it's the norm for them they do. I'm close friends with a couple of people who do, they've never had lots of money so don't see being on benefits as not having a lot. It was the same for their parents, same for everyone they lived near, went to school with...

They must manage their money very wisely though as their houses are gorgeous and they're always dressed lovely. I used to get a bit jealous which I realise is stupid.

Senrensareta "We are told that benefit fraud is very small but, if so many people know of others committing this, is that figure just the tip of a very big iceberg?"

I suspect the figure for 'benefit fraud' is from something like, if we thoroughly investigate 100 benefit claimants, we'd find 1 of them is fraudulent; and expand that cross the country.

Not sure many people posting on here have had contact with actual fraudulent benefit claimants, sailing as close as you can to the wind with job applications/child spacing is not fraud.

Yes I have and if you don't believe benefit scroungers exist get a job in a Post Office it is deeply distressing to see the contempt working people are held in and the number of claimants clearly working/laughing at the idea of working.