To wonder how long it will be before the NHS ceases to exist?

[DuchessofNorks]

3 years? 5 years? How long will it be before those deemed "rich" enough will have to pay through the nose for health insurance?

It'll be fine. Everyone stop the shroud-waving now; the election's over.

So the secretary who couldn't find the time to answer a single one of umpteen phone calls won't get paid? I somehow doubt it. My point is that at many levels people in the public sector, including the NHS, can do a shoddy job with very little risk of any adverse consequences.

They don't cope. The Americans I know with my condition without insurance don't cope.

The tories won't cut the NHS.

hiddenhome have to ever watched the documentary Sicko? It's very very sad. It's here documentarystorm.com/sicko/

Everyone needs to watch that. if this is what you want for the UK documentarystorm.com/sicko/

If the NHS disappears, huge numbers of taxpayers will die and those people are needed to keep the economy going. Most people can't afford private healthcare. NHS workers would be all claiming JSA and the bodies would pile up like tins of baked beans.

This clearly won't happen.

But something has to change and we're all responsible in one way or another.

I haven't seen that documentary Grays, thanks for the link, I'll watch that.

I have to warn you hidden I did cry, I don't usually but it hit home hard. I know you won't enjoy it but think you'll find it interesting

I'm frequently shocked at the attitudes I see on here about the NHS and what it "should" provide. It was set up to save lives.

I live outside of the UK now but I remember the fuss years ago when the ambulance service started charging for unnecessary call outs. It was outrageous, disgusting, shouldn't be allowed etc. If I or a member of my family were to need an ambulance tonight we'd be fucked, to put it bluntly, because we are not subscribed to any of the services in the country we live in.

The NHS needs to change because of the volume of people using it and lot's of things that can be bought cheaply OTC shouldn't be on prescription. My late mother used to get Benalyn on repeat prescription. She used it as an alcohol substitute disguised as a remedy for her "chest condition"

And the recent thread about the GF pizza being withdrawn? I offered some advice as I am also not able to eat gluten. The OP wasn't interested in adapting their diet to suit their needs, they just wanted food prescribed and paid for out of the NHS budget.

I've seen that film. Its a real eye opener. I was in the usa over Easter and had to visit a doctor the ten minutes visit was 218 dollars.
My prescription. A cream and painkillers was 70 dollars. I'm claiming it back from insurance but I was very appreciative of the nhs then!

My dh has American colleagues who cant leave their jobs for fear of losing there medical insurance as they have health issues that won't be covered if they leave.

Its awful.

However I don't believe our NHS is doomed by next week but we should as a nation fight for it and value it!

The US is not the only other option. The WHO ranks Singapore 6th best in the world compared to the UK 18th.

The spend c $1,000 per person a year less.

Copying that system would produce a better healthcare system and save c£30bn a year for the UK.

The NHS is not the gold standard for results or cost.

Just to clarify a point NHS dentists are not allowed to charge for missed appointments.

People say you shouldn't go to the doctor's for minor things but what if something isn't minor? We have all these bloody adverts saying 'if you have a cough/heartburn see your GP because it might be cancer'. I phoned NHS Direct for something I didn't want to bother the doctor for a few weeks ago and the advice was: go to your GP.

So, I agree people do misuse it but I don't think it's entirely down to their own stupidity.

finedambeaver in what way is it judgmental to say that going to your GP because your shoes are too small and have given you a blister is a complete waste of taxpayers money and is the sort of thing that is going to contribute to the end of the NHS.

Yes I am a real GP. In an extremely deprived area. Many (the majority) of my patients work very hard, for very little money and make very appropriate use of our services. But a sizeable minority will spoil it for everyone else - they tend to be younger - lord help the NHS when the "it's my rights" generation get old and are actually ill.

This is an opinion held by most doctors that I know.

Before charging everyone for missed appointments, the systems should be made more foolproof. I supposedly "missed" a hospital appointment once but had never received a letter or phone call offering it to me in the first place. Very frustrating after waiting so long. I've also (more than once) phoned up to ask where I was on a waiting list, only to be told my details couldn't be found.

Yes, agree. But more and more NHS organisations (including my practice where I work, the one where I am registered and both the NHS hospitals I have used in the last year) now text a reminder a day or two beforehand.

Don't get me started on people who move/change phone number and expect us to know it by our psychic powers.....

I would happily pay for consistent care. As a parent with an ill child
(I am certain, with hindsight, had undiagnosed whooping cough) I was unable to get consistent advice from my doctor/surgery. Appointments were given with various doctors in the practice due to part time GPs and necessary urgency. This meant inconsistent and contradictory advice. When I referred to what the previous doctor had said, because it was not formally documented, I was treated with arrogance and indifference. When I asked the doctor if my son seemed well - he refused to comment and said it was probably some 'bugs' and nothing they could do about it - this was after 12 weeks of being unwell. I raised a formal complaint - it was not dealt with properly as per the surgeries policies and procedures.

We are lucky enough to have private healthcare cover through my husbands employment. Several years ago it took me 6 weeks to get my NHS surgery to pass a referral through to the private healthcare company for a problem they were unable to diagnose. Private company would not see us without a referral (sorry if this is the incorrect vocabulary). Once seen privately the problem was sorted immediately by a specialist. The frustration was unbelievable, an 8 year old who could not walk properly and I wanted to alleviate the NHS of the problem by instigating our private cover.

People talk about removing layers of management in the NHS, my experience is whatever management is in place is incompetent.

We are 2 working parent family with 2 children. We are not an ill family but there have been times when we have needed NHS services and it has been diabolical. We have private healthcare. What else can we do to make things less difficult?

I feel blessed we have no serious illnesses in our family. I do worry about the future and my confidence in the NHS to provide quick and relevant care is very low.

The NHS, like schools, is run for the staff not the patients. The staff make a fuss and have consistent demands, whilst patients put up with 'gold' standard care from devoted 'angels'.

caroldecker if you knew what an awful employer the NHS is you wouldn't say that.

My husband has been doing some regular overtime (same each month) for the last 7 months. He was paid wrongly for the first 5 months (different mistake every month), month 6 they got it right - month 7 they have forgotten to pay him and he won't get the arrears back until month 9.

Could give you hundreds more examples. The NHS treats its staff like rubbish.

Just because NHs systems are rubbish, does not mean the intent is not to be in favour of staff.
What health system aimed at patients works 9-5 monday to friday?

If it goes people like me with complex health needs will be stuffed I am terrified I could never pay for the treatment and care I need.

Since the NHS was set up there have been about 40 years of Conservative governments, some with substantial majorities. The NHS is still just about going. If they wanted to destroy it they'd have done it by now.

What many folk utterly fail to grasp is that the NHS today is bigger, more bloated, more expensive and more bent out of its original purpose than it's ever been. People are living longer and the drugs and facilities required to accommodate the increasing array of health issues are not going to be getting cheaper anytime soon. Throw in to the mix an ever growing resistence to antibiotics and an obesity epidemic some serious decisions need to be made as to what kind of health service we want, and more importantly how we are going to fund it.

Currently billions are absolutely wasted in trying to adminster an organisation that is second only to the Chinese army in terms of employees. Simply throwing more money at it is not a long term solution.

The NHS doesn't work 9-5! my earliest bookable appointment is at 7.30 am.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster, agreed.

Spectator reader?

This old chestnut is brought out every year. The NHS will go on. But might have to change a bit. And crack down on some of the things it offers. Charging for GP's visits isn't unheard of in other countries. With children and low waged or unemployed being exempt or with chronic illnesses. I'd support this. And charging people for missed hospital appointments. People take the NHS for granted.

With children and low waged or unemployed being exempt or with chronic illnesses.

No

In my experience it is those who don't work who take the mickey the worst. everyone should pay something for a prescription, pegged at the cost of a bottle of generic paracetamol, so that there is no benefit from getting a script for it. If you are on regular scripts you can get a season ticket.

Similarly everyone should pay for missed appointments. Those on very low incomes can have it taken out of benefits at source over a period of time.

You don't value what you don't pay for. It is a common phrase among medical staff that the NHS is "free at the point of abuse"