Space or cash

[Bestoftimesworstoftimes]

Currently renting a compact 1.5 bed flat - it's lovely and comfortable with lots of advantages and reasonable rent and decent landlord but we do begin to feel cramped! We have a 2 pre school children. We could probably squeeze another year or two out here but there is a shelf life – we won't be staying forever particularly if our family grows which is on the cards.

Opportunity to rent a large 3 double bedroom house has come up. It is extremely spacious and very bright and light.

BUT the house is very rundown and so the rent is well below market rate. It would definitely be a downgrade on the material level plus have a less convenient kitchen /bathroom et cetera The landlord has agreed we can make some improvements but we have had a quote and changes to the decor plus all the furniture we'd now need to buy (current rental is furnished) would come to ten grand which is an absolute fortune!! This is not to make it fancy by the way, just basic stuff to make it a pleasant living space and less dilapidated/dingy. Obviously if we stayed five or more years it would pay itself but uncertain to know what the future holds, although they have agreed to a two year contract.

We could get help from parents for the initial outlay (don't love this option but we will not have those kind of figures readily available and they have offered to make an arrangement) but obviously simply living in the second one would cost us more in terms of rent, bills and council tax. But because of the low rent not the huge amount more it should be for a house that size. We can't decide whether the extra money to live in the other place might just be better put to savings while trying to live more efficiently in our current squeeze. It is so tempting to imagine having more space and another rooooom! Plus I love natural light and the house is so bright with big window and our flat is quite dark, one of the few things that bugs me about it. But then the house will be cold half the year and our flat is really cosy. Oops I'm rambling...

In terms of location both properties are quite near each other. Also we are now ground floor flat with access to garden now so that aspect is equal.

We are very attracted to the long-term potential of second place in terms of price/size but one other mitigating point is we know the current/leaving tenant and the new landlord has form for being quite eccentric to the point of obstructive and unhelpful (hence the state of the place). No rental is secure but we have a mutually good relationship with our current landlord.

Which option is unreasonable?! Estate agent on our back as lots of people interested and we are lucky to get first refusal. I find one day I lean one way and the next I see all the advantage of the other.

It would depend on how much of the 10k is costs to do up the property and the work that needs doing.

Mmm, it sounds a bit of a gamble with too many unknowns. Are there no other properties about or are they all too expensive.

Bulk of the ten grand would be on the property. A property someone else owns. Sigh. NB ten grand is likely an overestimate but I am doing that to be safe.

other properties this size are going for at least 500-1000 more a month if not more if they are very nicely done up and in similarly desirable location (right by park, close to tube etc)

Too many negatives for me. Stay where you are for now and keep looking for a better option / saving.

Better the devil you know - especially with DC in the mix

I'm not against renting or LL at all , but no way would I spend c£10k on someone else's house

I wouldn't soend £10k on someone else's property. No fucking way.

The LL could decide to increase your rent dramatically or sell.

Apparently the landlord won't hear of selling but agree there are no certainties with rental and other eventualities could have it pass out her hands too.
The previous tenant negotiated to keep the same rent over SEVEN years! If we would stay that long surely the 10 K would pay off in the savings we'd make. But it is true I worry there are too many ifs and maybes for us to bank on that.

It wouldn't be 10k just on the house – six or seven on redecorating is probably a closer estimate.

By 'savings' I mean not having to rent a more expensive (and realistically priced) place. Obviously that doesn't manifest in real money the first couple of years we would live there.
I can't stress enough how confusing it is that this house is unusually competitive rent for the size and location - but you get what you pay for I guess.

But in this case you don't 'get what you pay for'. The landlord gets what you pay for. They can boot you out after your two year lease and paying for lots of upgrades, and rent it to someone else for a much higher rent based on your improvements.

That's very well put midnite (your username is so apt as I blearily type into my screen) and although my gut tells me your scenario is unlikely I know it is scarily not impossible... by the way what I actually meant when writing you get what you pay for is the rent is astoundingly low because the house is not that great inside.

I would have something in writing that's legally forcible that you are guaranteed to stay for at least 3/4 years with no rent increases to offset the amount spent.

make it fair for you.

That sounds like a huge gamble imo. The landlord may have no intention of selling up, but what if they get made redundant, get sick, get divorced or get hit by a bus?

Yup. Though first and third in that list not applicable to this elderly single lady! but the other two definitely covered in 'other eventualities'

Hummm, sounds too risky to me too - spending a lot of money on a property that isn't secure wouldn't be something I'd be happy with - as others have said, things can change and if you loose the house after 2 years that would be unbelievably frustrating. And surely the ll will realise that the money you've put into the house would allow her to charge a hugely increased rent...

I'd stay and save - other options will come up, that are maybe not as big and cheap as this one, but give you more space, without having to spend so much of your own cash.

A lick of paint in a rental to brighten up the front room = fine

£10k on improvements = are you crazy?

But if the rent would be £1000 more a month elseqhwew then by 10 months you'd be Quid's in. What are the jobs? Slapping paint on won't cost that amount and if you are not replacing kitchens and bathrooms what is it?

Elderly single lady, providing her health is pretty good I would go for the new place.

I would negotiate a two year fixed rent/ contract...after all your circumstances may change and you may want to move on.

I would keep spends to an absolute minimum...painting only. The landlord should see to repairs.

If the bathroom isn't up to scratch the landlady should change it.

After you've bedded in you could see about changing cupboard doors in kitchen....suggest you go halves with landlord.

Fresh paint makes everything clean again.

What are floors like?

It's good to have extra space.

That's a big price difference in rent. The new place is sounding more attractive. How about getting a proper estimate of costs.

Could you do some of the work yourself.

Hmmm, having re- read your post I don't like the picture I'm getting of the new landlady. Eccentric, obstructive and unhelpful.

Who told you that? Has she other properties?

Is he attached to this one as it was her family home?

If you do decide to go with her, I'd want it in black and white just what she is responsible for and a minimum lease period that after an initial 6 months you'd want the option of two years with a fixed rent.

What happens if the boiler breaks down? I allow my tenants to ring my trusted gas repair man as I don't want them to be without hot water or heating. Would she do the same?

I think this is very much about your relationship with the new landlady.

I feel if this property was owned by your current landlord you'd jump in a heart beat.

She not he

Last few posts are really interesting as we were actually thinking of just a lick of paint and new carpets. The downstairs floors are great – in fact this is something that the previous tenants put in (!) so we just want to do the bedrooms and the stairs but this is quite a large square metre-age. We were quoted
1000-1500 for carpets
5000-5500 to paint the entire place. I was shocked at this figure but the guy explained it is partly due to the size of the rooms in the high ceilings and also because it has not been kept in good nick if he's going to do a lasting job he needs to peel back and start from scratch. To put size of rooms in perspective the front hallway is about as big as my bedroom now! I actually love a big entrances and find it very welcoming into a house but obviously makes it costly.
Adding to the above is buying beds, dining table, lots of bookcases wardrobes and I estimate that to be 1000+ ? Obviously this stuff we get to keep.
That comes toabout 8000 I just added another 2000 to cover hidden costs eg furniture being more expensive than I think (clueless on this as never had to buy my own before) repairing the little bits and bobs we might notice later such as shower wall, door handles etc.

In terms of what the landlady 'should' do let's not go down that route... if she would be willing to give up a months rent and give the place a bit of necessary TLC she could make a ton more money on this place and speedily recoup the expense and more. But she seems more fixated on not missing a day between tennants!

I would jump in a heartbeat for my current landlord because he is a decent guy who looks after the place. Having said that although his rent is reasonable it's not dirt cheap and he does put it up bit by bit to keep in line with galloping inflated market rates.
Boiler is a great question – it did break recently and the tenants were struggling. Eventually through the estate agent they had a new one put in but I don't think she was easy going about it. Does mean I would get a brand-new boiler though.

5000k on paint?

Hahahaha. Someone saw you coming

Go for it. It doesn't actually need 10k worth of work doing. You just want to pee your money up the wall.

OK, your last post on what you are thinking to do is interesting - if there are bits of furniture you are going to keep that's very different to investing in the house itself iykwim. That said, I think 1k is very cheap for the furniture you think you need - even if you're thinking lots of second hand/ebay, you'd probably want new mattresses I guess which aren't cheap.

Can you not paint it yourself? I wouldn't spend £5k having my house painted and I own it! Of all DIY jobs, that's probably the easiest - you can just do a room at a time over the next year, or maybe try and hit a few rooms quickly whilst you haven't got lots of furniture in, and save yourself probably £3-4000 (can't be more than 1-2k materials...) which is a huge amount out of the £10k.

Hummm, I'm feeling more tempted now! If you can paint it yourself in sections, and repurpose that money to buying your own stuff that you get to keep, and make sure you get a 2 year fixed contract, I think I'd be very tempted.

No way can we paint ourselves – I was going to put that in above as knew someone would suggest it. Have not got skills, time or inclination. Don't mean to sound snobby but we are far from being DIY enthusiasts and anyway the effect would be disastrous although in principle I totally see the value of the idea. As my husband put it he would rather do extra shifts on weekends and use the money to pay a professional to do it – though obviously for this amount it would be a LOT of overtime!