Space or cash

[Bestoftimesworstoftimes]

Currently renting a compact 1.5 bed flat - it's lovely and comfortable with lots of advantages and reasonable rent and decent landlord but we do begin to feel cramped! We have a 2 pre school children. We could probably squeeze another year or two out here but there is a shelf life – we won't be staying forever particularly if our family grows which is on the cards.

Opportunity to rent a large 3 double bedroom house has come up. It is extremely spacious and very bright and light.

BUT the house is very rundown and so the rent is well below market rate. It would definitely be a downgrade on the material level plus have a less convenient kitchen /bathroom et cetera The landlord has agreed we can make some improvements but we have had a quote and changes to the decor plus all the furniture we'd now need to buy (current rental is furnished) would come to ten grand which is an absolute fortune!! This is not to make it fancy by the way, just basic stuff to make it a pleasant living space and less dilapidated/dingy. Obviously if we stayed five or more years it would pay itself but uncertain to know what the future holds, although they have agreed to a two year contract.

We could get help from parents for the initial outlay (don't love this option but we will not have those kind of figures readily available and they have offered to make an arrangement) but obviously simply living in the second one would cost us more in terms of rent, bills and council tax. But because of the low rent not the huge amount more it should be for a house that size. We can't decide whether the extra money to live in the other place might just be better put to savings while trying to live more efficiently in our current squeeze. It is so tempting to imagine having more space and another rooooom! Plus I love natural light and the house is so bright with big window and our flat is quite dark, one of the few things that bugs me about it. But then the house will be cold half the year and our flat is really cosy. Oops I'm rambling...

In terms of location both properties are quite near each other. Also we are now ground floor flat with access to garden now so that aspect is equal.

We are very attracted to the long-term potential of second place in terms of price/size but one other mitigating point is we know the current/leaving tenant and the new landlord has form for being quite eccentric to the point of obstructive and unhelpful (hence the state of the place). No rental is secure but we have a mutually good relationship with our current landlord.

Which option is unreasonable?! Estate agent on our back as lots of people interested and we are lucky to get first refusal. I find one day I lean one way and the next I see all the advantage of the other.

Could you not at least shop around for quotes?

Painting isn't that difficult. I'm sure you find an odd-job non-gender specific person who'd do it for a lot less.

Blimey - that's a lot of overtime to do rather than save yourself 3-4k: painting isn't that bad, honest!

Definitely get more quotes - I know some very good (& pricey!) painters & decorators and of course their finish is amazing - but for someone else's house, I wouldn't be worrying too much about a perfect paint job & would be looking for cheap and cheerful.

What Saucy said - 5k on painting? DIY job, don't pay someone to do it, and who cares if its a lasting job or not? Its not your long-term home, landlady could drop dead in a year and her heir might sell.

So maybe , I don't know, £500 on paint, £1k on carpets, and some elbow grease. Now that I would go for.

Why why would you pay to do someone else's house up?

If you spend 10k doing it up, you're not saving any money on cheap rent.

Save the 10k towards buying your own house

If it is just paint and carpets and the kitchen and bathroom are livable with then I would do it provided that the energy costs are reasonable. Does it have central heating, a decent boiler, insulation, good windows? If not you may find some of the money you were hoping to save and put into the decorating costs goes on energy bills. Seriously decorating is not that difficult, but if you don't want to do it yourself then get some other quotes, that one is very steep! Also see if you can negotiate a longer term lease.

We are just making a similar move from a 2 bed flat to a 3 bed house that needs work, but we have 3 children and it belongs to my family so will be rent free, otherwise it would be a no no. With 2 preschoolers you still have a while before you need more space.

I am not surprised at the quote you were given for painting - I once enquired of just doing the living room, dining room and the stairs and was quoted £1200 plus materials. No way would I pay it - and I own my house - so in the end I did it myself with DH and FIL. It honestly looks great and I am not a DIY person at all.
So painting is something that you can definitely do yourself.
All in all, I do like the sound of the new deal - in the past I too switched from a 1 bed flat to a 3-bed house and cannot tell you how dramatically that improved our lives (the rent was just £200 more expensive, we rented through friends).
Go for it but do make sure you sign the 2-year contract with no rent increase so your investment pays off in a low rent over a long period of time.
One more thing: there is more to life than counting money, you have children and they are likely to get much happier 2 years of their childhoods in a big spacious house. Go for it.

Sounds like a better prospect OP.
It does sounds very spacious.
It's got a new boiler and flooring is good. I'd be very tempted.
Shame you can't cut decorating costs by DIY. Is it papered? Is it painted?

If painted, would washing the walls suffice?

My daughter got away with not doing lots of decorating when putting her house up to rent by giving the walls a good clean, even the papered ones had a little spruce up.

I notice your current landlord puts your rent up from time to time.

I've never done that. My tenants pay exactly what it was set at 4 years ago but then we probably have more houses to rent here so less competition.

I am fascinated but somehow I'm not surprised that the tide seems to have turned now people know the bulk of the money is a paint job. I just don't see myself doing it – have two active little ones in the day and work evenings. My husband's job could no way accommodate the time for this either and what precious annual leave he has he would like to spend with me/the children. In terms of kitchen and bathroom they are old and shabby
but functional (I think!)

The house is not well insulated – there are obvious gaps in some of the doorframes. I mentioned this to the estate agent and they said the landlady would try her best to fix it in the meantime she still hasn't had her tradesmen in to take a look yet so not at all guaranteed. Feel so confused as there is lots of promise and potential but also the concern we could be taken for a ride and lose out. I'm kind of banking on the fact that the previous tenants had a good innings over a long period but a little voice is telling me it doesn't follow it will be the same for us.
Going round in circles - Augh!

You can paint a room in a day. Pick a weekend, one of you takes the kids out and the other sticks on the radio and gets down to it.
I've done loads of redecorating and even though it's my own house, I still haven't bothered prepping properly and you can't see much (any?) difference between the rooms I've done and the ones a professional did.

However, I'd be really suspicious of the landlady. You might think she'd never sell but I think you need to plan for the worst. You don't want to spend ages/s doing up a place and therefore not being comfortable in it to start with, only for it to be sold out from under you (or the rent hiked massively) the second you can start to enjoy your surroundings.

I would go for it. There is just something about having space to spread out and the house sounds so lovely and bright and airy. You can do a heck of a lot decorating-wise for not very much money to make it warm and homey and cosy. Personally I love the IKEA website for inspiration.

But definitely shop around for more quotes for the paint job, and ask the current guy how much for a "budget" repaint without all the fancy stripping back.

Could you get it written into your rental contract that you would have first right of refusal if the landlady decides to sell the place?

I know its tempting, but I'd be most worried about the lack of insulation... It might seem fine now but could be horrible & draughty in the winter & no fun for any of you. We rented a big place that was terrible, no insulation at all in the loft, walls or anywhere. Could only really use the smaller south facing rooms and never got the place warm (bathroom was the worst). That said you could probably insulate the roof yourself for a few £100, but its stacking up to be a lot of money & effort for someone else's place that ultimately they will profit from. Definitely agree with Hearts it only needs to be a basic paint job, and protect your investment/tenancy if you can.
Good luck...

Why did the previous tenants leave? And why don't you ask for a longer lease - you can agree a reasonable inflationary increase in the rent, or an "upwards only" increase by way of inflation, or anything like that. I'd be wary of spending money on a landlords property, but not totally against it. I know a friend who rents out his flat below market rent and the tenants usually stay about 5 years at a time before buying themselves somewhere else. They often do quite significant work (the tenants themselves) I mean whilst there.

There is a HUGE difference between 'rental' budget decorating and decorating a home where you know you will be living long term. You can bulk buy builders 'magnolia' (or whatever the current colour is) and paint the walls and woodwork the same colour. Use a flat'ish paint on the woodwork and emulsion on the walls - you can be quite slapdash and it will still look smart and fresh. I wouldn't bother with too much prep at all. Sometimes you can paint over wallpapers too. (I would in a rental) If the house is empty it is a quick and easy job.

You could pay a group of 'casual' labourers day rates. It what most landlords would do.

Your savings on the rent are substantial. Even if you only had a two year contract you would still save.

I wouldn't see the insulation a a huge problem either. Foam insulation strips and fillers are cheap and will sort out any draughty gaps - it won't look great but it's a rental so it doesn't matter. As a tenent you are entitled to to similar home insulation grants as a home owner. You can check on the Citizens Advice website.
What's the boiler like? That might be something to consider. A crap boiler is quite crap. iykwim

Me and DH moved into a very dilapidated Victorian house in October, by Christmas we had redecorated all 3 bedrooms, kitchen bathroom, and living/dining room, including stripping everything, lining paper, painting and new carpets for under £2000. We had no clue what we were doing and asked for advice from friends and relatives as well as some online research. We were lucky in that our landlady cut the rent for a few months so that we could recoup the costs in return for doing her a long term favour. Everyone who sees it is impressed with the work we have done and in comparison to what it was, our novice attempt has turned the house around!

You may not have the skills but it's not difficult to try and learn. I think it would be ridiculous to plough £10k into increasing the value of someone else's property. You could save a fortune in doing it yourself. It doesn't have to be show home perfect.

Good luck whatever you decide. .

How old is the old lady because what happens if she passes away shortly after you spent 10,000 doing it up and then whoever inherits wants to sell / up the rent

Make sure you get a watertight contract with something like this in mind

All you self decorating people are so inspirationally practical and industrious. I feel quite put to shame though consider myself far from being a lazy pampered princess! I was leaning the other way now I'm not sure. I guess part of the issue is we are not desperate yet to go and in some ways it is easier to focus on advantages of current place, of which we are quite fond. Just torturing myself it is hard to imagine such a bargain will come up again when we are ready to go...

Indecisive much?

You say that it is £500-£1k a month cheaper than places that were done up.
Would you go for one of those done-up places at the higher rent if you don't go for this one?
Because even if it is going to cost you £10k to do it up (which it won't, and anyway, half of that is going on YOUR furniture that you would own and take with you if you left), you've 'paid it off' in 10 months, and everything after that is subsidised rent.

But I would go a bit further and have a conversation with the landlady about going halves on the costs of redecoration, and see if you can get a further discount on the rent...

I did not spent 10K on the house i own, i would't spend it on a rented house.

It is also the running cost. Whats the point of living in a big house if you can not heat it? I hate cold, it makes me very misetable so i would chose a cosy flat over a freezing house.

I would stay there and spend a little money on 'clever solutions' for small spaces. a visit to IKEA. And save the rest of the money.

Wouldn't touch the house or the prospective LL with a bargepole.

Where is the 10k coming from, is it your savings plus loans? How much deposit do you need to buy in your area?

So think we have decided to stay (gulp!). Three things that swung the decision were

1. risk of iffy landlord and possible difficulties. When boiler broke for previous tennants was apparently bit of a battle 'til it was repaired etc. compared with current landlord who voluntarily says 'I'm going away for a couple of weeks - if anything happens while I'm gone sort it out and send me the bill' !
2. reticence at asking parents for help whether the total bill be two thousand or ten and whether it is used for our furniture or decor of the house we don't have the resources to do this move completely on our own right now
3. following on from that it is only recently that we actually got to a good place of managing our incomings and outgoing and putting a bit aside each month etc. Bargain as this new place would be, for all it's advantages it would still cost more day to day than now (as people rightly pointed out increased bills, council tax). Proportionally not as much as it should but would still eat into our earnings and feels a shame when we have just got into good habits to go back to just about living within our means. Also as pp mentioned we could hopefully use the money saved for a deposit on a house as we do dream of affording something one day (dream being the operative word) and every little helps. In fact this whole week of discussion has been beneficial in forcing us to take a closer look at finances and seriously make a two year plan based on staying in this flat.

Anyway every time I think of the actual figures again my heart does sink as the rent is so unbelievably cheap it's ridiculous. It is a rare opportunity. But I can't trick myself into pretending it is nice (apart from the space and light) or that it a safe bet and combined with justifications above think we are making the right choice.
So! am I/we deluded?
(We still have a tiny window of time to change our minds...)

BestOfTimes. (Ps I love your NN ). I think that's a sensible decision. A good landlord is a huge, huge plus point and I think it sounds like your current place works for your budget.

Maybe have a fresh look at storage and lighting in your current flat and see if you can make it work for you a little better.

Good luck, it sounds like you are making the right decision.