Can't decide whether to go on a "trip of a lifetime" with a toddler and a preschooler?

[ReluctantTraveller]

I've namechanged as this would totally out me and I'm not entirely certain DP doesn't spy on me on here. Hello DP if you're reading. Yes, I'm really asking MN about this as I just don't know what to do!

So, we have an opportunity to go away for 6 weeks at Christmas to Australia and NZ where we would visit lots of friends who have moved over there. Some of whom we haven't seen for for a few years and who have had (and are having!) babies. We'd be planning to go to Sydney then fly on to NZ and travel around to visit various people and hopefully spend Christmas with as many as possible. All sounds amazing and its an incredible opportunity...

However, we have two DC who will be nearly 4 and just shy of 2 and I'm just terrified that it will be a disaster and I will spend the whole time wishing we were back at home. There will be 4 x 12 hr plus flights to be got through and I find even a 2 hour flight exhausting with a toddler who won't sit still. Plus all the travelling to/from and waiting around in airports. They are both dreadful sleepers and tend to be even worse away from home. They won't have many of their toys to play with and there will be a lot of driving around - DC2 HATES the car and tends to scream the whole time. The time changes will be horrendous to deal with. We'll have to lug so much stuff around with us.

I'm also the one who is responsible for sorting out food (planning, buying, cooking and clearing up) and sleeps etc and I know that they are both very difficult when they are overtired which is an inevitable result. DP tends to find this as "bad behaviour" whereas I am more understanding and reluctant to discipline. This tends to lead to arguments.

I also feel horribly guilty about being away at Christmas as I had previously invited PiL and my DF to come to us. MiL has always been away at Christmas before and been very sorry to miss out (although her choice!) and I know she is very excited about being around this year.

It will cost an eye-watering amount of money - especially as we'll still have to pay for childcare etc that we won't be using and I'm terrified that it will be a huge waste as everyone will be miserable and arguing!

But it is probably the only opportunity we have to do this as a family. DC1 starts school the following September and DPs work is busy during the summer break. I'd love for us to do something like this as a family as DP has never spent anything like this much time with the DC and I think it would be good for everyone (and possibly a bit of an eye-opener for DP!). I just wish it could be closer to home and not over Christmas. On the other hand, my best friend is going to have a baby in the autumn and it would be amazing to see her and our other friends.

I just really don't know what to do so please, please give me your opinions/advice/travelling tips whatever! I'm really sorry if this sounds like a stealth boast, it isn't intended and I don't mean to come across as a spoilt brat - I know it sounds a bit like it - "oh poor me having to go on an amazing holiday blah blah!"

Thanks in advance (I'm a bit scared in case you can't tell!)

I vote no.

The work involved will be monumental.

Have a long talk with your DP about the realities of the trip as you see it before you decide. I have flown all over the world with my DC since they were babies and you need both parents on side and sharing the load to make it fun. I would also recommend breaking up the trip with stopovers. I did this when I flew to OZ on my own with the DC and it was fine.

Add a 3 month old too in to the mix, and that is what we did (so 3 months, 2.5 yrs and almost 5 yrs old)
It is totally do-able. Yes hard work, but totally possible.

You don't need to cart tonnes of stuff along with you too.
We packed carry on luggage, 1 large rucksack (60l) and 1 phil and teds.

Car seats - if you are hiring a car you can get seats too. If you are staying with friends they will be able to sort those (borrow from friends or use Plunket in New Zealand).

Toys - whatever fits into the kids (small) carry on rucksacks. Mine take what they can carry themselves. They went through a phase of emptying saucepan cupboards and playing endlessly with those on that trip.

Definitely have a stop over. We've done straight through once and I swore never again. Not so much for the kids (only 1 7month old then) more for me. Getting off one 12 hour flight and straight on the next is tough. We had 2 nights in Singapore the next time, and 3 weeks in Malaysia on the way back.

2 and 4 yr olds should adjust to new times pretty well. BF baby took longer.

Basically if you are keen you will make it work. And it is easier before you have to negotiate additional time off school later on.

I would wait until they are a lot older, I really could not put myself through that. I am dreading a 2.5 hour flight to Malta this summer with my ds who is 3.3 years and has constant ants in his pants.

Thanks very much everyone for your thoughts - especially beastling, UpSeeDaisies and 321Go for your experiences, its great to hear some positive stories!

UpSee and 321Go, all advice very gratefully received! And thank you UpSee - that's a great tip about the campsites, I hadn't thought of staying there unless we were in a campervan - and I don't think we'll be able to afford one given the time of year . But motels would be a great option - I remember the awesome campsites from when DP and I went to NZ 10 years ago(!).

Which Britax seats did you take by the way? Car seats are something I'm debating about - DC2 is likely to still be rear-facing so I'd like to take at least one and given the length of the trip, I think the cost of hiring would be astronomical (plus you never know what crap you might get - and I'm thinking of seats I've seen in the UK!). The only Britax seat I have is the dualfix though and that weighs a ridiculous amount so not very portable. How do you find out which seats are approved?

Also UpSee and 321Go, what did you do about cots etc? Were you able to borrow travel cots? Or did you just use a mattress on the floor/bed guards? DC1 was in a cot until 2.5 and even now needs a bed with sides to avoid falling out.

One thing that definitely puts me off about the flights is that DC2 will still be on my lap for most if not all flights. And it would almost certainly be mine too, mummy is by far the preferred option! Although it might change of course between now and December.

If it was just DC1, I'd be totally up for it. Flights are much easier now with colouring and my ipad for entertainment. But DC2 - I'm not sure whether tablets will work (or for long at least). Perhaps I should up the TV watching now to foster a nice addiction

I'm in Australia just now for six months with a five month old - one month in so far. We bought a travel cot for her to sleep in (worked out to be £25) so we could take it with us when travelling around.

Car seats are not the same as in UK and need to have the Australia approved sticker to be legal - I can't link on my tablet but google it and the link should pop up. We took our car seat at the last minute (as in at the airport instead of sending it back with my mum) and now it's just sitting in a cupboard.

I would go, but with certain provisos. I'd insist on layovers so the children weren't on consecutive flights without a reasonable break (we stayed three nights in Dubai to break up our trip to Aus when DS1 was young), and I'd travel Business Class. It's more spacious, more friendly and more amenable to small children.

Cots - we'd had a backpacking ish trip to Croatia a few months previously without a travel cot and so that was when DD (turned 2 there) moved from cot to bed. Was warm so we rolled the duvet up and put it next to the (low) bed just incase. She didn't go back in to a bed after that.
We did have a borrowed travel cot for the baby but never used it, just co-slept.

We hired cars in NZ and I don't remember the cost of the car seats (so can't have been much at all). I've flown with a rear facing bucket style car seat but not any others.

Definitely campsites - or backpackers places too. Loads more freedom. This one stood out for me www.barnyardbackpackers.com/

You could buy a seat for your youngest, but if they like your lap anyway, not worth it. Lots of walking round the plane - and if you can, try and get evening flights so they should sleep at some point! The 5yr old loved having the freedom of the seat-back screen, 2 yr old wasn't interested so lots of colouring stuff, some tiny wrapped up toys as surprises during the flight (don't think we actually needed many). Meal times are entertainment in themselves, and the cabin crew were brilliant at ours in whatever order suited us (kids first, adults after or 1 adult and kids, then other adult).

Hi from NZ. I say go for it, but cut down massively on the amount of driving etc you'll do while you're here. I would plan on renting/staying in just one or two places while you're here. If your friends are true friends then they will come to visit you.

If you are interested in staying in Wellington then we will be out of our family home for about six weeks over the Christmas period and are advertising for house-swap/short term rent. Have everything set up for kids your age. PM me if interested.

The other suggestion is to have a good stopover. Singapore is a great stopover because you can stop for 8-12 hours, which is enough to get out of the plane, get on a train and go to the Children's Garden at Gardens By the Bay. It is perfect for kids your age, complete with free water-play and marvellous adventure playground. Wear them out for that long haul to Sydney / NZ.

Just reading your proposed itinerary has me wanting to adopt the foetal position.Your DH won't turn into superdad just because you're on holiday,so sorry but DON'T DO IT.

I had friends visit from NZ recently.
The three year would only sleep in his parents' bed. One of them had to get in whilst he went to sleep, which quite restricted the evenings.

I'd leave it one year and 4 months till the summer holidays in 2017. That way the youngest will be three and a few months.

Summer 2018 would be better though as you'd have finished paying for any childcare - DS2 would be about to start school. You would all get more out of the trip.

We took our DS, age 4 on a two week holiday to Australia last month and I had the same reservations as you. However, the worry of how he would cope on the flight and with jet lag both ways was unfounded. We did three flights to get to our destination and DS (a fan of planes) was in his element and slept for a huge part of it. He also adjusted to Aussie time quickly (no problems at all) and uk time again (no problem at all).
DS is exceptionally good at occupying himself for long periods of time, but as you say your children are wrigglers, I would still say do it. This is a fantastic opportunity and 6 weeks is plenty of time to recover if the flight is horrific. Life is for living, do it!!

Also summer 2018 would mean no nappies, no pushchairs, no cots, no high chairs

I agree with kiwiinkits (also from NZ). I've done the long haul trip back to the UK with 3 yr old twins and a 17 month old who didn't sleep at all. It was very hard but doable. However that was only because we didn't travel too much when we were in the UK - we had a base of one place and we did a few day trips from there. Travelling too much when you're there is really exhausting - I'd do it but only if you can cut down on the driving and get people to come and see you!

No I wouldn't. I would save the money and go in a few years time...no it is not your only opportunity as a family to go on holiday, what a silly thing to say. You can take your child out of school, yes you have to pay a fine but meh.

If I was you, I wouldn't be able to relax and that is the whole point of a holiday surely.

I know several people who have done, some because of family who do it regularly, and with much much smaller children.

I think you would be daft not to :)

I’d be inclined to go. We’ve done a couple of long haul trips with our kids, albeit when they were slightly older than yours. Our last round the world we went straight through on the way over, and it was actually FINE. The kids are allowed to watch as much TV as they want, and we just got them to sleep for about half of each leg which really helped with jet lag. You’ll probably have about 4 days of early wakes, but they adapt so much easier than you expect.

Singapore is a great hub to go through with the pool and other facilities at the airport. LA is pretty horrific as you have to get ETSAs and clear customs, but if you fly on NZ1 and NZ2 in each direction, then it’s TOTALLY worth upgrading to a Sky Couch. Essentially a set of three seats on the side where the footrests come all the way up to make a single bed sized platform. I shared that with the kids, and DH had a seat across the aisle. The kids sleep so much better top and tailed.

Have a look at www.childrestraints.co.nz for details on car seats. www.babyonthemove.co.nz is also great for renting any baby gear like cots / seats.

Loads of campgrounds have cabins available, and are a good cheap option. Be aware though that Christmas / New Years is the prime holiday season over here, and if you wanted to book a holiday house then I’d get on to that sooner rather than later, as lots of the good places will be booked out already. Try www.holidayhouses.co.nz or www.bachcare.co.nz as well as the usual airbnb.

Seriously just do it! The kids will have a ball, the beaches and lifestyle here is great and so relaxed at that time of year. Just make sure your DH pulls his weight, and have a fab time!

The problem with leaving it until the UK summer holidays is that the weather in NZ is going to be highly variable, depending on which bits of NZ you're visiting (obviously Wellington will be windy and probably raining whenever you go ;)

South Island can get fairly cold in the winter (and I live in the sunniest part of it) - which is great if you want to ski, not so good if you want to hang out on decks and balconies with wine and friends.

I'd go, personally. We did the trip in reverse (NZ->UK) for Easter one year as they're reasonably relaxed about taking kids out of school; we had a 5 year old and 3 year old so not wildly different from your ages. The 5 year old watched cartoons, ate/drank/played with small toys/slept on and off for both flights. The 3 year old was more difficult, but we read / played games / ate / napped / watched the TV screen but with no sound because he wasn't keen on the headphones. DH and I had already worked out childcare - I did the lion's share on both flights because I find it difficult to sleep on planes unless I'm in business class - he can sleep anywhere. Once we landed, he took over driving, childcare, sorting out what / when / where to eat, while I napped at odd intervals and got over the jet lag. We did a combination of hotels and staying with friends and the boys were fine. You have to accept an element of slackness regarding bedtimes and dietary choices (particularly on a plane!) but every time we've flown long haul with the boys the airlines have been great. We went straight through via LAX with a 2h stop to refuel - I'd probably do the same again, it meant the boys were tired from the first flight and pretty much slept through the second one.

Depending on your budget, if you fly AirNZ and buy 4 returns in Economy, you can upgrade them to SkyCouches for not much more, which is what we did the last time we did the trip (few months ago). You get a set of 3 in Economy for 2 people with footrests that come up horizontally with the seat, so you have a flattish area that you can lie down in (makes a sort of large single bed about 5'2" long from window to aisle). DH and one boy had one row, DS2 and I had the row in front of them. You can recline them too, it gives you a decent area to play or sleep in.

As far as car journeys - some form of tablet with movies and apps, in car DVD player - works a treat for our 2. Also good for the plane, although the in flight entertainment is also good for children.

Car seats - you can rent them here, or bring your own with you. AirNZ doesn't count car seats in your baggage allowance on international or internal flights normally, no idea about other carriers but I imagine they'd all be similar.

Things not to forget - sunscreen, hats and tropical strength bug spray :)

Hello, we live in NZ and this christmas are making the trip back to the UK with our 3yr old DD.
I know it is one child less than you, but our little girl is already excited a bout her trip. She can't wait to see her cousins and family and i think it will be SO beneficial to her, to have her parents for 7 weeks, not stressing about work etc. I can't wait either.
We have done the trip previously and it was ok, so i am not too worried about this trip, providing she can roam about a bit if she needs to.
Good luck with your decision!

I'd say go for it! I live by quite a touristy part of a city in nz and we often bump into families from the UK who have similar aged dc to yours, so there are a lot of people who do it and manage fine. Lots of beaches, fantastic parks and reserves, places like castle hill to climb around, puzzle world in Wanaka, etc and most places are incredibly child friendly, I can't think of any cafes I've been in that didn't have at least a basket of toys for children. Cabins on campsites, as recommended by pp are great value and we've always been asked if we wanted a travel cot in the room.

When we moved out a few years ago we had a 3 year old and a 20 month old and I was 6 months pregnant! I can't say it was pleasant, but we survived. We went all the way through with only a 2 hour stop off at lax, and I do remember not wanting to get back on the plane, so maybe a longer stop off may have been better, but we wanted the sky couches which were great as the DC could spread their toys out. Mine are not great sleepers so we're awake the whole way to LA, then ran round for the 2 hours, then barely slept for the next flight! BUT we changed our clocks to nz time as soon as we got on the first flight though and when we landed we managed to stay awake until 7 pm that night and then everyone slept through till morning so jet lag was not a problem actually (at least there was some benefit to the madness!!) At the end of the day the flight is only a couple of days of your 6 week holiday so I'd concentrate more on being here.

You do need to be aware it takes a long time to drive anywhere though, but at least pretty much any journey you do the scenery will be stunning

Oh and Christmas is a big deal here, it's just different, they can see the outdoor Santa parades and our local Santa even arrived by boat

My children are the same age as yours and to be completely honest, the thought of it sends shivers down my spine. My children aren't naughty, they are toddlers. In my opinion, it's just not a toddler friendly trip and would be better left and organised somehow when they are older

OP, I actually did this in December/Jan 1997 when my DD was nearly four and DS nearly 3 (so a wee bit older than your youngest) for the same reasons you did. We flew to LA for four nights then on to Auckland. Then hired a land rover (and car seats) and toured the North Island, the flew over to South Island and toured that, for six weeks. Then flew to Hawaii for four nights before returning to the UK. I bought an umbrella pushchair especially for this holiday...and forgot it! So DS did a lot more walking and he was fine, actually.

We used Trailfinders to help with some of our planning, devising our route over the six weeks, and booking most of our overnights in advance, using a mixture of Home Stays, motels and hotels. We also stayed with relatives here and there.

I was an amazing experience.

OP, it's so hard, and I see that the people who have replied are almost evenly split. Yes, it is an amazing opportunity. And yes, it would be bloody hard work with the potential to be absolutely miserable.

We took our DD to Australia for three weeks just before she turned two. We somehow managed the flight out - she slept a lot and we kept her entertained with books and toys the rest of the time. She was a lively, demanding child and when we were there we spent a lot of time doing activities centred around her (every time we passed a playground we had to stop). When we visited the beach - which was often, as we went in February/March - it was lovely but also tense because we had to keep an eye on her the whole time to make sure she didn't run away/drown herself. So the whole thing was pretty stressful, though I don't regret it. We haven't been back since, sadly.

She was a child who was very happy in the car. And there was, of course, only one of her. Not sure how we'd have coped with two.

So I'm on the fence, really. I feel all the antis very strongly in your post - the stress, the exhaustion, the cost, the fact that you might spend six weeks arguing with each other. And yet it will be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to visit two wonderful countries and see some old friends. The chances are, the next few years you'll be too busy, too caught up in parenthood and work to do something like this again.

I've flown that route a few times and yes, it's tough, but I've been surprised at how well little kids (in the main) behave. It really would be an amazing trip and if you're prepared, I think it'd be amazing!

If you do do it, DO NOT fly air new Zealand economy in their new planes - they used to be my first choice but they've recently gone to a ten- across configuration. Flying just over to LA this summer was the worst long haul flight I have ever had in my life. I am five foot tall and not a big girl, and I was squished like a sardine with the bloke in front of me practically in my lap! I used to love air NZ but I will not fly on that model plane until they sort it out.

If you do do it, look on seat guru to see the configuration of your plane and try to get a bulkhead seat, even if you gave to pay more!