To have looked at my dads bank statements??

[Ilikeyoursleeves]

Hi, I've just taken on the role of my dads power of attorney and he and I are POA to my mum who has dementia. As part of the role of POA I asked my dad for information re his bank etc should I need to access it. Ie, if he can't look after my mum, she would need to go into care and I don't have the money to pay for that, so I'd need to know if he can. My dad never discusses money, he never spends it either. He is a war baby brought up on rations and it is so ingrained that he still scours the reduced section of supermarkets, the house is in dire need of being done up, he wears clothes out until there are holes in them etc. He and my mum have good pensions and barely any outgoings so I suspected he had a bit saved. He still refuses to discuss money and practical matters of care etc so when I was over there today he went out of the room and I looked at a bank statement that was on the table. There was >£50k in it, but then I saw a note book next to the statement and between him and my mum they have £665k!!! I didn't say I saw it but brought up the same conversation I always have.. Why won't you do the house up? Get yourself a new bathroom and kitchen or a toilet downstairs for mum etc, but I got the same response 'the house is fine, spending money doesn't improve your life or make you happy'. I'm just amazed he is sitting over over half a bloody million and he has holes in his shoes and trousers! He has a cupboard full of new clothes from presents etc but won't wear them!

I'm not sure whether I should say anything, that I came across his notebook and try to get him to get stuff done to the house etc. Or just leave it? Wherever I bring up money matters he skims over it, not sure why??!! We don't communicate much anyway (all very superficial) but it feels weird knowing this now. Any advice???

Don't comment and be happy. If he or your Mum ever need to go into a halfway-decent nursing home you could be looking at £50,000 per year.

Don't say anything. You now know that there is money available to pay for care for your mum/him if it is needed. Otherwise it really isn't your business. Unless the house is actually dangerous or he is suffering through wearing insufficient clothing then it is still his business what he spends his money on.

Thank your lucky stars there's enough to keep them in care for a bit - fees now are around 12,000 A MONTH in London where I am.

Don't suggest he revises his way of spending, it'll just stress him out. He won't change. He won't appreciate you mentioning it either.

In what sense does the house need to be done up? Are there actual health and safety hazards? If there are, it might be worth bringing that up. If there aren't, keep your mouth shut. An out-of-date kitchen generally isn't a health or safety hazard.

Wearing clothes with holes in them isn't a problem unless it's keeping him from doing something he wants to do, which it sounds like it isn't. It's possible that he doesn't like the clothes he got as presents for some reason, so he doesn't wear them. Buying stuff from the reduced section of the supermarket isn't a problem, unless he's getting food poisoning from it or something like that. Having a particular amount in the bank doesn't obligate him to have the lifestyle that someone else thinks is appropriate for that, if he doesn't want to.

My father lives in a hoarders house. You cannot get through the front door without tripping over old newspapers, junk, things that might come in useful one day. My family have been tearing their hair out over it, he constantly complains he doesnt have any money but literally its all tied up in house. He refuses to get a panic alarm because it 'costs money'. I dont know why elderly people live like this but their choice I guess.

YABU.

How would you feel if your dad, or anyone else, wanted to know what was in your bank account and went to the trouble of looking at your private personal information?

How he chooses to spend his money is none of your business either, as its not directly affecting you.

Gross invasion of privacy. I would be ashamed of myself, not posting on MN about it

My mother is exactly the same. Has loads of money in different accounts but always buys economy brands!

It's because they don't buy brands, new clothes for the hell of it etc. that they have the money. The two things are very linked.

Some people just don't care that much about material things and as you get older, I am finding, the less you care. I hope to be like that one day.

My Grandparents were exactly like this, never spent a penny of their savings and instead decided to pass it on to their DCs and GC's when they passed away.

My Dad is similar, too, and doesn't spend money on anything he believes is frivolous. It's why he spent my entire 90's childhood in 80's short-shorts and would turn up at sports day in sandals, socks and those tiny shorts.

I wouldn't dream of looking into his accounts, though, unless I had absolutely no choice. He'd never hide stuff from me because he knows he can leave statements out and I won't look at them. He values his privacy and I respect it. He does the same in our house, and he never talks about money unless it's to gripe about the cost of steak.

Your Dad trusts you, otherwise he would not grant you PoA.. You did have the right to look at his accounts, but personally I would not say anything to him about it.

I am in a similar situation. You may find that your dad is reluctant to pay for any home carers for your mum, when the time comes. If you nag him now about spending he may close up and refuse any suggestions.

Keep your powder dry for essential spending for your mums welfare.

It is very common for older people to not notice the state of their clothes or their home. I am embarrassed by my step-dad's condition, but can do nothing about it.

This all turns on how bad the house is. It sounds like a downstairs loo / bathroom might make your mum's life much easier so it might be worth being a bit more pushy on those types of things.

I would make sure they have it spread amongst a number of accounts to ensure it's protected in the case of a bank going under.

Other than that, it's up to them what they do with it! My parents are the same, they've just sold a second property that my mum inherited but won't consider buying a new car, they're looking at 8 year old bangers.

I think you were wrong to look.

Yes you have pos, but he is still of sound kind and expressed he didn't want to discuss it. You know he doesn't want you to look, or you would have said something.

I think unless you want he to stop trusting you, you need to keep quiet. All that might be to pay for a care home should one/both need it.

I can tell you from recent personal experience, not having the money is not the only reason why someone might not want to do home renovations. Living in a construction site sucks. Having to move everything around so that the workmen can do what they need to do sucks. (This is especially true if you have physical limitations that make it hard to move stuff around) And we weren't doing anything nearly as major as a new kitchen.

Ah, it's awkward, but I can't help but feel the best way forwards is to say nothing. It's up to your parents to decide to do up the house or whatever, and they've obviously decided not to, many times over the years. They're unlikely to change now and unless the place is dangerous, I'd let them be. And there's no need for them to know you've been looking, either. Far less trouble all round if they don't know.

Get yourself used to the information. If you're feeling the urge to blurt out "But you have half a million!" - take yourself out of the situation. Go for a walk, put on the kettle, whatever. Keep it deep within yourself - you're keeping his secret, if you like.

It's a crying shame if the money could make their lives better, but it is their choice. And it may be needed to look after one or both of them, and that's a shame too, that more enjoyment wasn't got out of it first.

Good Luck. It must be tough, when you can see a downstairs loo would help - maybe concentrating on purely practical things would help, but maybe he'd feel a downstairs loo would be giving in. Take heart that he has you as POA though, he's relying on you to guard his dosh. :D

I can't believe care home fees are £12,000 per month in London - surely that's per year?

OP I don't think your dad will change his ways - someone I know recently inherited similar amounts and they didn't do their house up either - if it's ingrained, not much you can do

According to all the current research, your dad is absolutely right about spending money not making people happier,or at least about spending on material things not making people happier. Buying things has surprisingly little effect on long-term happiness.

If he doesn't have a problem with wearing clothes with holes in them, how would buying new clothes make him happier? (It's another story, of course, if he's making someone else wear clothes with holes in them when they don't want to)

Robotlover68 we are in the South East and recently paid £1,200 a WEEK for FIL in his care home. Another local one charges £1400 a week - £12000 a month, even for London, seems a bit steep based on that but your £12,000 a year might get you a kennel at the moment. You are easily looking at £60-£70k per annum.

Care home for my Mum, is £560 per week. Very nice home, and she is very content, but absolutely basic. A BUPA home would be double, but her husband won't pay the money.

Dads in a nice [naice] nursing home in South Wales , fees here are over £800 a week , so about £36K a year
Luckily he had savings and a good pension

Thanks for the replies, I had absolutely no idea the cost of care!!!! Omg that's crazy prices. That's why I have been asking my dad about his finances though. As POA I will be responsible for decisions re welfare but also financial which includes care and paying for this. I have £4k in savings and that's it so I have been worried about what will happen if I need to pay for my mums care should something happen to my dad, or if he needs looked after. Given he keeps avoiding the subject and wont discuss practicalities, that's why I looked at his statements. I agree that he is set in his ways and won't change, he won't spend money on the house or clothes etc. the house is safe enough, it's just really quite dirty. It needs new carpets, new sofa etc. Everything there is what was there when I was a child. But it's not a health hazard (yet) and 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.

Is anyone else POA or know much about it? He finally got it written up after me and my brother hassling him but we haven't spoken about what I need to know or do. Well, I brought it up but he avoided it!!!

oh well I'm wrong then - I'll try not to get to the point of needing care

OP, was the POA properly drawn up by a solicitor? And has it been registered?

The POA only applies when the circumstances set out in it, kick in. You having a POA just now means nothing and certainly doesn't give you the right to invade his privacy.

If it's standard, it will only apply in the event of his incapacity and will give you no locus over his affairs just now or entitlement to ask him. The fact is that you've had to pressure him into it and he's done so reluctantly. It doesn't have to mean that he's happy about it, just sensible.

If you can't respect his wishes just now, you should perhaps consider whether you would respect them when the POA kicks in.

I'm sorry to be snippy but it was hugely emotive for my parents to do similar and they did so because they trusted us. If they had known that we'd abused that trust, the POA would be destroyed and our relationship damaged.

Sorry I think YABU.... and if you say something then YABVVVU. Unless your mum is suffering from his make do and mend attitude I don't think you have a right to say anything.

As others have stated a few years of care home fees (for a nice home) will easily put a massive dent in those savings.

Also, shouldn't you be happy, you / your family probably stand to inherit a bit when they pass on.