To have looked at my dads bank statements??

[Ilikeyoursleeves]

Hi, I've just taken on the role of my dads power of attorney and he and I are POA to my mum who has dementia. As part of the role of POA I asked my dad for information re his bank etc should I need to access it. Ie, if he can't look after my mum, she would need to go into care and I don't have the money to pay for that, so I'd need to know if he can. My dad never discusses money, he never spends it either. He is a war baby brought up on rations and it is so ingrained that he still scours the reduced section of supermarkets, the house is in dire need of being done up, he wears clothes out until there are holes in them etc. He and my mum have good pensions and barely any outgoings so I suspected he had a bit saved. He still refuses to discuss money and practical matters of care etc so when I was over there today he went out of the room and I looked at a bank statement that was on the table. There was >£50k in it, but then I saw a note book next to the statement and between him and my mum they have £665k!!! I didn't say I saw it but brought up the same conversation I always have.. Why won't you do the house up? Get yourself a new bathroom and kitchen or a toilet downstairs for mum etc, but I got the same response 'the house is fine, spending money doesn't improve your life or make you happy'. I'm just amazed he is sitting over over half a bloody million and he has holes in his shoes and trousers! He has a cupboard full of new clothes from presents etc but won't wear them!

I'm not sure whether I should say anything, that I came across his notebook and try to get him to get stuff done to the house etc. Or just leave it? Wherever I bring up money matters he skims over it, not sure why??!! We don't communicate much anyway (all very superficial) but it feels weird knowing this now. Any advice???

Your dads money is his to spend or not spend he wont change his ways you cant make him do the house up or wear new shoes you need to not say anything or use this information against him you cant say dad you are loaded fgs get a new bathroom it would insult him and betray his trust in you

The reason he probably has all that money is decades of living frugally. Material goods are obviously not as important to him.

I am respecting his wishes, if I wasn't I would've been way more forceful in trying to make him do the house up etc. I have just been stressed about how on earth I will pay for care when it's needed (tbh I do think my mum needs more care than my dad can provide but again this is another area he won't discuss).
Blistery, I'm quite offended by your post. I didn't force him into getting POA, my mum has dementia and without POA it would be a disaster. It is the sensible thing to do and everyone should have a POA. I am one of three siblings and my dad chose me to be POA, part of that is me dealing with his finances re care etc and the lawyer agreed I should know about them. I would try to 100% do what he would want when he can no longer make decisions, the difficult part is that he is so private that he won't / can't tell me what he wants or what his circumstances are now. My brother has tried too but that's just how my dad is. And yes the POA was written via a lawyer and has been registered.

'The fact is that you've had to pressure him into it and he's done so reluctantly.'. Ummm, not a fact. I didn't pressure him. And he wasn't reluctant. He agreed 100% with sound mind. You make me sound like I bent his arm backward and made him sign something. If you have been through the POA process surely you must know how important it is to have?

Would you be able to access money if your mum needed longterm care first do you think your dad would refuse and you would need to enforce the POA is that what you are concerned about

Sorry OP but you said that you hassled him. I can only go by your posts.

You also looked at his documents when he's obviously made it clear to you that he doesn't want to discuss it. That's disrespectful.

Yes, it would be helpful to know his views on how he feels about care or what he would like to happen with the house - that doesn't necessitate you sneaking a peek at his bank statements. You deal with the financial position as you find it at the time that the POA becomes effective. Pretty pointless of you to decide everything will be okay if he decides to gift it all to the Romanian Donkey Sanctuary tomorrow.

It's a position of trust and one that it sounds like he offered with a degree of hesitancy. Whilst he is of sound mind and capable, he is entitled to his privacy.

It is not your Dad's money. It belongs to both parents. If spending money would make her life easier or better - a downstairs bathroom or a new super comfortable chair or a cleaner - then he is being mean not to spend it. Imagine someone postong this about their dh: we have £665k in savings but dh will not let me buy new carpeting even though it is 25 years old and threadbare. It would be ltb left right and centre. She deserves to have some comforts and can well afford them.

If your mum and dad are fine with the house the way it is, and they aren't planning to move out, then don't worry about doing anything with the house unless you have to sell it.

If remodeling houses is a thing you enjoy, just be aware that it's not everybody's cup of tea. Some of us don't like figuring out what renovations need to be done, vetting contractors, moving all of our stuff out of the workmen's way, and living in a construction site or staying somewhere else until the work is done. If your parents haven't updated anything on their house since you were a kid, it's likely that they don't enjoy this kind of thing.

POAs can be extremely useful. They can also be abused and damage family relations. Which is why it requires trust.

You may not abuse it but you'd be surprised how many siblings fall out when a parent becomes incapacitated and there are significant assets involved. It's not infrequent for family to start seeing money as an inheritance rather than the parent's money to be used for their needs and care.

I mention that not because I think for one second that you would act in such a way but to demonstrate just how much trust there is in granting a POA. It's a huge credit to you that your father trusts you - I just think you should recognise and respect that.

'Hassling' = encouraging him to get a move on with something he totally agrees on as he takes forever to do anything. It doesn't mean we forced him to do anything.

If your dad is of 'sound mind' the POA doesn't kick in - you shouldn't have looked! You wouldn't have to pay for care & ss would do a financial assessment to see if your mum & dad could pay, people should set up POA but your dad saying he wants you to do it if he needs it doesn't give you the right to invade his privacy now

The fact that we don't talk about what is involved in care though has contributed to my worry about how I would pay for it. I know nothing about how it all works so it's reassuring to know SS would do an assessment and it wouldn't immediately be down to me to pay it.

Put on your tin hat. Now and in the future, there will be people criticing you. Whether it is for the care/neglect of your parents or your handling of their finances. These are people, who know nothing about you, and those that do know you but think they know best.

My experience, the ones who voiced strong opinions about our decisions were never around during the five years we ran ourselves ragged, nor have they stepped in or visited, during the three years that mother has been in the care home. 8 years of caring for a severely disabled and rude man, who is not even a relative, and a mum withAlzheimers.

You had every right to look at your Dad's financials. Possibly in the future you will have to sign documents regarding their assets. Without the correct knowledge you cannot make an honest declaration.

Your dad may not have dementia, but old age and stubbornness can lead to a major catastrophe as it did for my mum.

You cannot use the PoA unless your Dad is incapable. However the stress of caring for my mum, wore her OH down and he eventually let me take over his financial affairs.

You have a difficult road ahead. There is brilliant advice on here from many who have faced what you are going through.

My two bits of advice to you are, post any questions under "elderly care". You will get a much kinder response. Also contact AGE UK, and the Alzheimer's Society. They will guide you through with kindness and knowledge.

At no point would it be down to you to pay for care! If care becomes necessary, SS will do an assessment to determine if your parents will be self-funding. If their savings are very limited (if I remember, in the order of £24k or less) then the state pay for their care. Above that point, they will be expected to pay themselves. If they run out of money, you don't take over paying, the welfare state does. You might wish to contribute as the LA funded care may not cover the full costs of the home in which your parent has been living and they may be required to move to another one but there is no directive which says you have to pay or your parents will be thrown out.

It depends how the POA is set up. I had financial POA over my husband. He had speech problems with word finding difficulties so couldn't manage complicated phonecalls so I used to manage his banking. He was of sound mind though. The welfare power of attorney was different though as he had to have lost capacity before I could make decisions about his treatment. I'm also aware there are differences between scotland and england.

I've got POA for both welfare and financial. Thanks for the very helpful advice Florentina.

Imagine someone postong this about their dh: we have £665k in savings but dh will not let me buy new carpeting even though it is 25 years old and threadbare. It would be ltb left right and centre. She deserves to have some comforts and can well afford them.

But we don't know that the OP's mum wants new carpeting. If the OP has asked, she hasn't said anything about that in this thread.

I don't know UK law, but I don't think wearing clothes with holes in them or having old carpeting or appliances in your house is legal grounds for saying someone is not of sound mind (I hope it isn't, they'll be coming to take me away any day now if it is).

Op. Look at this way if your parents need care they can afford it. Please dont bring it up as i bet they very proud. X

OP you certainly wouldn't have to pay for anything out of your own money for your parents. If they go into a care home the effects of the Care Act provisions that come into force next April should cushion the blow a little as your parents have very substantial capital. If the time comes you could also look at a care fees annuity - basically insurance cover where you pay a fixed fee for care and it covers them whether they need it for one year or 20. It is a bit of an information minefield and some of the new provisions could change before they are implemented. I'd suggest you contact Age Concern for more information and maybe a solicitor on the specialist older persons panel for advice before you take any steps that involve spending money. I think you need to talk to your father about keeping full records of all his financial matters in one place for you to access in due course.

Your parents' money is their money and it is of course up to them - well, your DF now - how he spends it. But if he were suddenly to be taken ill and require care, you would have had no ability to make arrangements for any payments with regard to their care. Frankly otherwise it could have taken months, and a lot of money, for you to be able to gain access to your DF's finances and ensure he or DM got the best care possible. This way it's not something you or your siblings will have to think about later at a distressing time - and it's only something you need to enforce if DF weren't able to deal with things himself.

I don't think that you meant "hassled" him with any malicious intent but from a concerned sensible viewpoint. It does not mean you now overstep all boundaries and betray his trust. I don't think you should utter a word about the sums involved to your siblings nor attempt to raise the topic of house repairs for example. But if money is a taboo subject to be avoided, how do you have any idea how to plan ahead for your DM's care?

That generation prided itself on getting by as frugally as possible. It does seem a shame the money is just sitting there but now it will pay for your DM to live comfortably in a home with adequate care appropriate for her needs. And who knows what your DF's requirements will be.

Fwiw we felt the same over our parents' sense of priorities. My parents and my in-laws could have spent more on themselves than they did. I think they were glad to have something to leave us whereas we wished they had lived less economically but it was second nature to them.

Btw don't know if you have come across it but in the list of Talk topics in the Other Stuff category there's an "Elderly Parents" section, MNers who can sympathise with just this sort of issue can advise you.

YANBU. If you're taking over or even assisting with their care and living needs, then you will need to know roughly how much there is in the pot for things such as benefits forms, or future care plans. You've had a roasting on here, which I think is harsh, but I think you just have to be practical and this is part of that.

It's not as if you're asking for the money or stealing the money, so you don't deserve the flaming, but it will be useful to know what funds are there should you ever need that information when choosing their care should matters worsen. Good luck OP, you're being a caring daughter.

Thanks missbattleaxe. That's exactly why I looked, to get an idea of what would be there for future eventualities. I will check out the elderly parents section too, thanks all x