To think if a child was sexually abused, the accused would be arrested and investigated?

[LovelyBath]

As above, Apparently the police 'don't think there is a victim'?

granted sorry

I would hope the accused would face some basic questions eg where were they when it happened / times it happened so that if they had an alibi they could be cleared quickly.

I would hope that a child saying that they had been sexually abused would trigger a serious response from people in authority.

I have no confidence that much would happen in reality though, even with all the scandals we have seen recently.

I don't know what thread this is about, I haven't seen it.

I don't really know what to say.

I believe the police should have been there when they spoke to the child.

Has your friend seen the social workers report? Is there reason to believe you friend has made it up and coaching her child, or that there is no evidence?

Contact? Yes I think sexual abuse is rarely taken seriously if by a parent who is non resident. The accusation, which is often believed, is that the resident parent, usually the mother, is encouraging the child to make up accusations to get back at their ex. I am so sorry OP this has happened in your family.

As others have said, sadly this doesn't always happen. Disbelief of victims is rife

Thanks but, as I mentioned it isn't in my family or about another thread. It seems it hasn't been taken seriously and this is quite common. CAFCASS have now said she needs to coerce the child to the contact centre, she doesn't think she can do this. What are her options? Oh and there was a social workers report where they do think it happened but this was overturned in court and contact granted, they both have lawyers.

The thing is, the thing which makes me wonder why it might not be taken seriously is that she has split with the older child's father too and she denied contact in that case too and it had to also go through CAFCASS. No abuse that time but I guess the records would be there. I wondered if that might go against her.

I work in Child Protection but in Scotland so the laws are a bit different. I will try to help if i can.

I assume the child made a disclosure to her mum but did not make any disclosure to SW? I am making the assumption this is a fairly young child? That may be why police did not get involved at that stage.

The police need more evidence than a disclosure from a parent about something. Can you share what the disclosure was? I am guessing it may have been very vague along the 'daddy touched my flower' lines?

This does not mean that nothing has happened it just means there is insufficient to act on. Many parents make things up like this to stop the other parent getting contact. I see it every week. I suspect the court may think that this is what your friend is doing as you have said she has a previous history of denying contact.

It is such a tricky area. The child may have been abused and if that is the case hopefully the child will be able to talk about it as she gets older. This may be prompted by having to see her father.

The police would not arrest someone without sufficient evidence but i would think a statement would have been taken from him.

Hope this was helpful.

There is an awful thread going at the moment where the mother is being given no choice but to hand her DC over to their abusive father with court threats and all sorts.

It is so sad to read.

I think people may think you are linked to that OP.

Cashewnutty - I don't believe that many parents make this kind of thing up. I do believe that in those circumstances, mothers especially are not believed.

You would be surprised how many parents do make this sort of thing up. Or take a remark completely out of context to score a point against the other parent. Both mothers and fathers do this. It is heartbreaking for the child being used as a pawn in a game between adults. It can be either physical or sexual allegations. It happens very very often.

How do you know the accusations are not true?

In this particular case I have no way of knowing whether it's true or not. I know nothing about it. I was only commenting on this because the OP said her friend had previously stopped another child from seeing their father. I noted that they might not believe her because of this past history. I am just trying to help the OP.

I find it quite depressing that a child protection official believes that mothers often make this stuff up

It is depressing, but it doesn't surprise me a bit, Mothers are routinely not believed if they say their child is being abused by a non resident father.

Unthinkingly will find I said parent. Both mother sand fathers will misconstrue what a child says to meet there own ends. It happens I can assure you. When a child trots out adult phrases or states 'mummy/ daddy says' you know they have been prompted in some way. If you haven't done the job then you can't say it doesn't happen. There are also parent who do abuse their children. It's the job of my team to find out who has been abused and who hasn't. It's not an easy task and we treat every case seriously and with an open mind.

I think you will find not unthinkingly. Sorry.

Thanks cashewnutty and others for your opinions. I have been finding it quite tricky to know what to do to support the mum. I have found MOSAC which is a charity for mothers and mentioned that. I've been asked to mind the child during court times and doctors visits and had to say no as she is young and shy of me and I don't think it's fair. She is at nursery now. The other child is friends with my own and I have asked if he wants to come round whenever is helpful to her as thought he might need a break. Apparently both of them have been having nightmares and stuff, terrified of the dad. I wondered of you could tell me of where the other thread is so I could have a look and maybe some of it may be helpful. Many thanks.

If for example I accused someone of something, but they can prove that person was elsewhere, maybe out of the country at the time. Then they wouldn't be arrested.

You'd think, but isn't my experience, my experience, it depends who is on duty and what mood they are in.

sashh yes I completely agree with that. However we were talking in very vague terms at the time. But yes the police are very inconsistent with their approach.

People make shit up all the time. Not sure why anyone would try to deny that

He was not elsewhere, he was in charge of her quite a bit on his own. I want to think it isn't true for the daughter's sake but I guess that means coming to terms with my friend making things up, and to me as well as the authorities. I know she has done a witness statement, surely someone wouldn't do that if it was false? Where is the other thread please so I can take a look. I've tried searching but I can't find it.

YABU
you can't just go around arresting people until you have a case.
Yes, investigate as soon as complaint is made.
How would you like to just be arrested because somebody had accused you of something if you were innocent?

An ex friend of mine was fighting a custody case and made a false claim of sexual abuse (another friend of hers said it would guarantee the father wouldn't get access or custody) she ended up losing custody and was arrested and questioned by the police herself for making a malicious allegation, it's the reason she is an ex friend. It does happen and from what you say the only person the child has supposedly told is the mum until disclosure is made to a third party the police simply can not act.

it isn't always obvious what the police think or are doing.

In this case it does seem hard that contact is being given etc, but I know of a case where 3 year old disclosed something. Her Mum went to police, child disclosed to the police.
There was no other evidence, and 3 year old wasn't considered to be a reliable witness. However, her abuser (not a relative) was then investigated and arrested for child porn.

about 2-3 years later, after he came out of prison for 1st offense, he was then arrested 'out of the blue' for the abuse of the child. The now 5 year old, whose story had never changed, was now a reliable enough witness.
I have no idea what went on behind the scenes, there was no other new evidence, but he was then convicted, approximately 3 -4 years after the event.