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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Lowri Turner is a massive twat?

77 replies

iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 21:06

Googling tips on caring for DD's hair, and I came across this article (it is old)

Lowri Turner on being the mother of a mixed race child

Amongst other things, she talks of being dismayed her friend says DD is getting darker, and says anyone in an interracial relationship is trying to make a statement.

Maybe it just struck a chord with me, after someone told me when DD was a few weeks old that they would find it weird having a baby a different colour to them, but AIBU to think this was really shitty of Lowri?

OP posts:
Original poster
iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 21:54

Why is it more convincing stitch? I don't see my DP's race. I don't see my DD's race. She is my beautiful girl, funny and loving. The fact her skin is darker than mine is neither here nor there.

OP posts:
areyoubeingserviced · 02/05/2015 21:55

She is awful.
I feel sorry for her daughter

FreudiansSlipper · 02/05/2015 22:00

i understand much of what she is saying

the treating mixed race children as pretty dolls
the cultural differences and where does the child fit in

we do notice colour, we do notice differences, we have preconceived ideas that are very hard to shift even when we think we do not we

having a mixed race child she is suddenly aware of the differences in our culture as she is now living that not looking on as an outsider

Original poster
iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 22:10

Do you have a mixed race child freudian?

She doesn't need to fit in. She is just our DD. She has black family, and white family. She will learn the history of both, I'm sure. But what cultural differences do you suppose there to be?

OP posts:
Original poster
iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 22:11

And what are the preconceived ideas?

OP posts:
FreudiansSlipper · 02/05/2015 22:15

no preconceived ideas on race/colour/culture in our society

i wish this was true but it simply is not true

she is speaking now being aware of what mixed culture actually means not being on the outside looking in

i am mixed race white/asian

NoArmaniNoPunani · 02/05/2015 22:21

She's a twat but she seems to have disappeared into obscurity since this article.

Original poster
iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 22:23

People who will have preconceived ideas of a person based on their race or culture are racist. I don't give a shiny shit what they think.

She is actively contributing to it though. She is 'othering' her DD herself.

OP posts:
Original poster
iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 22:24

People who will have preconceived ideas of a person based on their race or culture are racist. I don't give a shiny shit what they think.

She is actively contributing to it though. She is 'othering' her DD herself.

OP posts:
Fourfourtwo · 02/05/2015 22:31

I also get some of what she is saying. I was surprised that people who I felt were pretty progressive in their views on race and culture would say to me "what colour do you think DC will be?" when I was pregnant (I'm white, my partner's black). And the old "mixed race children are so beautiful" drives me crazy, as if they can only be described as a homogenous group and by their attractiveness. My DD is actually quite fair-skinned and my partner's sister commented that he shouldn't worry as she should darken up (he wasn't worried BTW).
It was something we ever considered, the colour of our child, and now it's not a factor either, she's just DD. But as a mother of a mixed race child there is certainly something about how society sees them and comments on their looks.

FreudiansSlipper · 02/05/2015 22:34

have you really never ever made a preconceived idea about someone based on their colour/cultural background/class/religious background

i applaud you if you are an adult and have grown up in the uk and can truly say you never have

some feel not acknowledging differences is taking away identity others do not or being colour blind as ignoring cultural differences

NickAngel · 02/05/2015 22:36

I think she's stil around, I'm sure she was on The Wright Stuff last week....

Original poster
iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 22:38

I agree fourfourtwo. As I said in my OP, somebody told me they would find it weird. Plus I got a lot of the 'mixed race, she will be beautiful' comments when pregnant. DD is dark, and I've had many comments on that.

But Lowri is othering her DD, examining her skin colour, frantically searching for similarities, being dismayed when she realises she is getting darker. It's completely different.

OP posts:
Mintyy · 02/05/2015 22:39

I'm surprised you are giving her the time of day. It was a long time ago (and iirc there was a thread about it on here at the time) but she has completely disappeared from the public eye.

Original poster
iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 22:43

No I haven't freudian. Why would I? Those factors don't define a person. To believe they do makes one racist.

What cultural differences will a mixed race child face? Serious question.

OP posts:
Original poster
iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 22:45

She was on The Wright Stuff last week mintyy. I think she's something of a regular on there. figures

OP posts:
Fourfourtwo · 02/05/2015 22:55

I agree there are some uncomfortable remarks within the article but people always comment on who a baby looks like, especially early on and don't parents look for similarities too? It's more difficult to hear when it's linked to colour. I will admit being concerned that people would not recognise my partner as DD's dad as she is so fair but there is now such a similarity between them I don't worry anymore. Not that it was ever a big worry, just didn't want him to always be explaining his relationship with her to others, especially as he's a SAHD.

But in general I do agree that LT is a twat, especially regarding her own sisters. She seems to have a knack of putting in print her views on her family that I probably wouldn't want to read if I were her sister/ daughter.

duplodon · 02/05/2015 22:59

To believe it and act in accordance to it makes you racist. To have or explore thoughts that arise does not.

My granny told me over and over growing up that you could always tell a person was a traveller by their shoes even if they were wearing a fancy suit. I always look at men's shoes in suits with this thought, when I have zero interest in whether they are travellers or not. It's fossilized conditioning. Thoughts are often just verbal fragments of old memories... so we all know that Mary had a little.... our brain fills in these things without asking our permission.

If you grew up with any significant person in your life sharing racist thoughts, from time to time fragmentary thoughts based on racist stereotypes may enter your mind. I definitely have implicit bias about travellers and gypsies and also about women who have sex before marriage. This doesn't make me believe travellers are lesser any more than it made me avoid sex before marriage... but the thoughts do still show up sometimes.

Original poster
iLoveFlop · 02/05/2015 23:04

Surely to believe it is enough? To define somebody by their race/religion/culture etc etc is racist. You don't need to act on it to be racist.

OP posts:
FreudiansSlipper · 02/05/2015 23:09

that is great for you flop is you truly have never passed a judgement on someone or had a preconceived idea on how someone may act, what they may like etc (does not have to be negative) to have such self awareness is great most will have to challenge themselves before they reach that level no matter how liberal their upbringing has been

well if one side of a family is white mc (like Lowri) and one side is Asian (like her dp or ex dp) are they not already differences within the family. of course their can be many differences between two mc families but when you have a different culture their maybe differences in religion, how families interact, expectations within families, language, their are likely to be more differences

that is to be explored and celebrated but it will be different from her upbringing and her dp's upbringing

and her daughter is not white like her she is mixed race she does not resemble her like her other children do and this she probably did not think it was something she would have ever thought about until she had her dd

read the last line though about how natural it all seemed (after she got over initial shock of the feeling her daughter is different from her) because her love for her is as natural as it is for her other children

duplodon · 02/05/2015 23:13

If you actually believe it, I guess. But believing and thinking are not the same, and if you do kind of believe it (or catch yourself inclining towards believing it) and you value being non-racist, you can uncool yourself from your thoughts and beliefs and act on your values, not the conditioning that brought about that implicit bias. It's far better to catch it in the mind as the mind is in flight than to just suppress the thoughts, as psychological research has consistently shown that suppressing thoughts paradoxically activates and strengthens them.

duplodon · 02/05/2015 23:14

Uncool??? Unhook..

Devora · 02/05/2015 23:25

I remember this article, too. At the time I thought it was a mix of racism, twattishness and some real honesty about real issues. I thought it was hugely ill advised to write an article like that so early in her daughter's life, but thought she was probably struggling with all sorts of stuff.

Since that time, I've become the white mother of a black daughter, and I actually find the article more offensive. It's not that I don't understand some of what she's saying, though other parts are completely alien to me - watching your child's skin anxiously to monitor if they're getting darker? wtf. I think the article has two main flaws: one is, breezily unconvincing jokes about her own racism aside, she does seem to consider it natural and inevitable that she should not have the easy bonding with her daughter that she had with her sons.

The main crime, though, is penning this for public consumption at all. It is really ill considered. Your first job as a parent is to protect your child - including from your own postnatal ramblings. I struggled in the months following both the birth of my first daughter and the adoption of my second; I was often ambivalent and it took awhile to bond. I wouldn't have dreamed of committing those feelings publicly and identifiably, before my feelings had settled and been processed. If she'd waited for a couple of years, this might have been a good article As it stands: well yes, it is a work of massive twattery.

moomin35 · 03/05/2015 07:30

She's now a regular on the odious matthew wright show on channel 5

moomin35 · 03/05/2015 07:30

Sporting a cringe mid life makeover