Amanda Holden's interview in DM - not specifically about her but time to get real about our fertility.

[Luckytohavemybaby]

She goes on about wanting another baby, but that it would kill her. It may be me but are 40something women being fed a line to about our fertility.
I've seen yet another friend (trying for a DC2) have her third miscarriage - her DS1 is only 18 months. She's 43. Another friend age 42 has had a m/c trying for no2, her DD is only 12 months. And I've got several other friends who have miscarriages in their early 40s after - as they say 'leaving it too late' to have a baby. Celebs seem to be popping them up to the age of 50. I'm wondering - as someone who has one very loved DC (and who knew she was very lucky to have one age 37 as I have a health condition type 1 diabetes which has given me lots of problems) whether it's time to get 'real' as they say. Is it doctors, is it the media. Yes sure we are the new 30s but our bodies aren't are they? The workplace needs to change that's for sure.

I think women are being 'real'. There are many reasons that women come late to motherhood, very few people are under the illusion that their fertility in their forties will be on a par with their fertility in their twenties.

Yah u. I'm in my twenties and having a baby took 5 years. Yes some women in their forties can get pregnant without problems but it's madness to presume it will be easy at any age, let alone after you've hit 40.

As far as I know Amanda Holden has, very sadly, had a stillborn baby and nearly died giving birth to her youngest DD so I think she maybe referring to that when she says that another baby may kill her.

Yanbu, rather!

I think the media actually promotes the other side - you must have children before you're 40. And my understanding was that this is scaremongering. I'm sure I've seen this discussed here recently. IIRC, the stats are actually not so heavily against older mothers as the media would have us believe.

yes, AH is talking about the fact she had a still birth and then badly haemorrhaged with the next one. Having another could actually kill her, so she's been told not to try.

its not about her ability to conceive, but to carry to term and give birth safely.

I think women are well aware of the risks of pregnancy at any age, it's not just older mothers who might experience issues. I'm 29, started ttc four years ago, and I've had two mcs and several chemicals, and I'm waiting for surgery to stop me miscarrying again, so we can then start fertility treatment.
Amanda has before through a lot of things, the death of her baby and severe issues with the birth of her daughter, I don't think they're related to her age.

Most women are excessively well informed about the risk of waiting to get pregnant to the point where pre menopausal women are one of the largest growth demographics in abortion clinics because they assumed they were unable to get pregnant due to the propaganda.

Interesting point Apocalypse.

I just read an article in the same vein on DM about a 43 y.o who'd put off having babies to work on her career but sadly the baby died at a month old, really sad.

I agree with other posters - I think women are, on the whole, "real" about their fertility.

I don't think anyone is waltzing around thinking that conception, pregnancy & childbirth will automatically be easy at 45. But for many, it's not easy at any age.

If a woman (or her partner) do not feel ready to have a baby in their 20's or even 30's, then that shouldn't stop them trying for one in their 40's. They will almost definitely be doing so with the knowledge that they may have left it too late.

Also - if Amanda Holden feels that she would like another child, she has a right to express that wish surely? She goes on to say that she won't because it may kill her. Knowing that you really can't do something doesn't stop you wanting too though does it?

Anyone who still thinks you can have a baby whenever you want regardless of age must have been living in a cave for the last 10 years. It is well known and much discussed that fertility declines sharply from the mid-thirties onwards.

And many of those 'lucky' older celebrity mothers may have had a lot of discreet assistance, inculding egg donation.

I think society, men and employers need to get real more than women hoping to become mothers specifically.

I think women are well aware of the risks of pregnancy at any age, it's not just older mothers who might experience issues.

I don't think this is the case at all, unless you have been through it and experienced some of the truly awful things that can happen you simply have no clue of that whole other world. (Not you specifically adora obviously)

I know 2 women 1st is 38 2nd is 40. Both in stable relationships and both are planning to ttc in a couple of years. I've tried gently pointing out that maybe they shouldn't wait so long, but both have a fixed idea that women are having children later and later and it'll all be fine. They just have no clue and don't care really as it's not them. Most of the women I see having children later and later are celebrities and/or women going through fertility treatment.

It's been shown fertility reduces dramatically after 35, but anecdotally we all hear about the granny who gave birth at 65 or whatever, and this may squew outer belief in a never ending fertility window in our own lives.

I do think women are sold a lie that they have options for childbearing ease after 40.
The cynic in me thinks it's to stop women going off on maternity leave in their 20 and 30 multiple times, as there's always the 'option' of having children in your 40s now.

Fwiw, early 20s is the best time to have a baby. But you don't see many women doing that as they have student debt and want to get going on with their careers.

I get the OP's point, and am glad this isn't just a slagging off of Amanda Holden, who seems to be a hard working sort of person who has had a difficult time with stillborn baby and post traumatic symptoms after a difficult birth.

I am perfectly "real". I had no desire for a baby until I met my now dh.
I tried for a baby at 37 and was 38 when I gave birth.
I know I was and am fortunate but there was no question of me having a baby ten years earlier. I was single for a start and I certainly didn't want a baby on my own.

i had mine in my mid 20s, i was 25 and 27 when i had them, and i know i'm actually quite in the middle age wise of mums my two go to school with.

Most seem to have either had them late teens/early 20's or waited until their late 30s, i seem to be a bit of a rarity having had them mid/late 20s!

What's really wrong is how women are treated as though these choices are solely down to them and blamed for leaving it 'too late'. But in reality many will have wanted children for a long while but have been struggling with debt, work hostility to working mothers, or been single, or been in relationships with men who wouldn't commit, etc.

This isn't a situation that arises only because of women, but it is always discussed in those terms.

"Fwiw, early 20s is the best time to have a baby."

Depends on what you mean by "best" - like a previous poster, I had no desire whatsoever to have children when I was in my 20s and (perhaps fortunately) got pregnant easily at 37 and 40. At 22 I might have got pregnant easily but I'd also have been banjaxed financially, quite possibly would have been with the wrong partner, would have missed out on a lot of valuable life experiences. I don't think these are small considerations for most women ("those silly women - missing out on THE ACTUAL PROVEN BEST TIME FOR ALL WOMEN TO HAVE A BABY so they can do frivolous things like earn money/have a fulfilling career/write music/make sure they're not having children with a total dickhead"). And, yeah, I just didn't want children at the time: I don't think it's the case either that most women reeeeeeaallly waant baaaaaabies in their 20s "as nature intended", and they're just being foiled by stupid society and men who won't commit.

As PP have said, you really would want to have been living under a rock lately not to know that your fertility declines with age, I just don't see these hordes of women blindly assuming they can have kids at 48 as easily as 28. And as per some things I've read the "OH MY GOD YOUR FERTILITY DROPS OFF A CLIFF AT 35" is frequently exaggerated anyway: my understanding is that the big decline doesn't happen until your 40s. Most late-30s women are only slightly less fertile than they were in their early 30s, the main issue is that you have a lot less time to sort things out if you discover fertility problems.

Eg of the message about declining fertility not just getting through but going too far: I was informed once on a forum that it was actually impossible for a woman of 40 to get pregnant without medical aid, and that most women over 35 were infertile. Which was interesting, as I was both 40 and pregnant without any artificial assistance at the time.

I'm not a fan of AH, but I think it is hugely unfair for the op to conflate AH's medically advised decision to limit her family with vague comments about women being generally ill-informed about fertility.

My understanding of the impact of age on women's fertility is that the point at which fertility really starts to decline naturally (post-35) is the same point at which IVF outcomes also start to worsen. So women are more likely to find it harder to conceive naturally and fertility treatment will also be less likely to succeed. But there have always been women over 40 having babies - you only have to look at the huge 18th/19th century families where women had babies continually over a period of 20-30 years (I'm thinking of women like Emily, Duchess of Leinster, who had 19 children over 26 years with her final child being born when she was 41 yo).

Yes, in the days before widespread contraception a lot of women had children in their 40s. You just kept going until you stopped. :(

The data on fertility going off a shelf at 35 is very old though. About 100 years iirc. Takes no account of improving health in several generations of women.

As Montrous says, a lot of celebrities who have babies in their 40s are using assisted conception of one sort or another...

And perhaps some efforts should be focused on both men fathering DC before 40 and the culture that encourages women to establish their career before children. It isn't just women leaving it late because it suits them alone.