Amanda Holden's interview in DM - not specifically about her but time to get real about our fertility.

[Luckytohavemybaby]

She goes on about wanting another baby, but that it would kill her. It may be me but are 40something women being fed a line to about our fertility.
I've seen yet another friend (trying for a DC2) have her third miscarriage - her DS1 is only 18 months. She's 43. Another friend age 42 has had a m/c trying for no2, her DD is only 12 months. And I've got several other friends who have miscarriages in their early 40s after - as they say 'leaving it too late' to have a baby. Celebs seem to be popping them up to the age of 50. I'm wondering - as someone who has one very loved DC (and who knew she was very lucky to have one age 37 as I have a health condition type 1 diabetes which has given me lots of problems) whether it's time to get 'real' as they say. Is it doctors, is it the media. Yes sure we are the new 30s but our bodies aren't are they? The workplace needs to change that's for sure.

The rhetoric about 'getting real' is pretty unpleasant - it implies that if you don't manage to have a baby, or if you're (still?) trying after about 35, you're to blame for failing to face 'reality'.

I know people may not intend this, but that's how it can come across.

This reminds me of the "what's your cutoff point for a last baby?" thread; I sense both justifiable irritation at the media's endless picking at women's fertility and a bit of personal defensiveness about our own choices. Every woman is different re wanting kids, when they want them or at all and I just want to gently point out that wider society doesn't applaud you for having a baby in your early twenties; you are judged as feckless and irresponsible and a lot of the judgment will come from older mothers smugly reminding you of their better decisions. I've been a young and an older mother and I felt far more vulnerable and defensive about my parenting when I was 23 and fending off snide remarks from people eager to point out how I'd messed up. Now I'm older and married and blend in,it's great that all I have to fend off are bullshit Daily Mail articles about my withering ovaries, believe me it's a doddle compared to randomers on buses calling you a scrounger or prospective landladies wondering if you'e going to have men coming round all the time. Okay, I admit I'm biased, but I have a soft spot for young mums, they actually get far more genuine shit thrown at them than older mums.

Dinosaur, wasn't she married to Les Dennis rather than Les Dawson?
(Misses point of thread and retreats apologetically...)

I am so glad I had my dc young. Yes not at the ideal age or with the right man, but it means I have children. Had I left it til I met my now husband Id face the very real probability of being childless. I'm in my early 30s and we have been trying for years and have suffered several losses. I don't think I would be able to go through over a decade of this and know in my mind I want to stop trying soon and realise it's not to be.

Sadly I think the pressure to wait for the perfect situation is behind many women and men waiting so late. Perfect may not happen.

You're so right OP.

I'm in my early 50s but was thinking of giving IVF a whirl.

But then I thought: 'You know what? I'd rather spend the money on an abortion and a summer holiday.'

And then maybe a tit lift in time for Christmas.

Why don't you think of something else?

Yes definitely not this guy

I'm cheered to hear that actually 35 isn't a hard and fast rule for declining fertility.

I'm currently being investigated for dodgy periods and I mentioned to my doctor my (our, really) interest in having another baby at some point to be met with the reply of "fertility drops after 35 and the NHS will only help till you're 40. I'd start now."

I'm only 36 in October.

Having had children late in life 38 and 41. There is definitely a sizeable group of women who leave having children until it is too late. They look at some celebrity in their late 40s who has very possibly had doner eggs and rant about it bring not fair.

My relative messed around with loads of unsuitable men. She then found she had left it too late. Had to go for doner eggs. Not that anyone knows..it just looks like she was lucky

Queen - sorry but I would start now especially if you haven't had a baby before.

Hillingdon I'm already a mum - he's 13 now but I've had about 4 miscarriages in the interim 13 years, and then was single for years.

It's only since I met DP that I've thought it might be a possibility.

It's just the absolute definite "here is your time limit"

YANBU. We don't want to hear it but l think assuming you can start ttc mid 30s and have 2 dc as l know a few professional women are planning is not ideal.

I had dd1 at 33 and will be 38 when dc2 is born so l understand reasons for waiting but l wouldn't rank career progression for example as something l would look back on and say well l couldn't have dc but l made senior Manager.

I am well aware that my fertility is hanging in the balance at 40. Had my son easily at 37, had three miscarriages since, last baby was found to have severe Downs. I will not give up as I desperately want to give my son a sibling, so we will keep trying until I can't get pregnant anymore or I end up on a psychiatric ward.

It's a fertility war zone out there but like others I only found my fiancée late in life and was in no position financially or relationship wise to have children any earlier.

should, I am going to quote you - I don't mean to pick on you personally, and I get why you feel this way, but you and the OP are saying things that I think maybe you would reconsider if you read this? I am so sorry to read about your losses, and I hope you see where I'm coming from.

You said:

I am so glad I had my dc young. Yes not at the ideal age or with the right man, but it means I have children.

But what if you hadn't had them - because you couldn't? What if you'd (god forbid) miscarried your children at that point?

Had I left it til I met my now husband Id face the very real probability of being childless.

As many women do, who were not lucky enough to have them when they were the age you were when you had yours - how should they feel?

Sadly I think the pressure to wait for the perfect situation is behind many women and men waiting so late. Perfect may not happen.

Yes ... and for some women, 'perfect' was never an option, and they never even had the option you had.

I wish people would think what this sounds like. Every woman who has children could post 'well, thank goodness I didn't wait for 'perfect' and had mine at 20/25/30/35/40 ...', but that will never change the fact that for some women, it wasn't going to happen at 20 or 40, and they are being stigmatized for that, as if it's their fault for 'waiting'.

No but for every woman like me or you there is one who dithers and flops from man to man thinking she can leave it til she's in her 30s to settle down and that, like their career and social life, they can control and choose when they have children. Like everything fits into nice boxes.

Life doesn't fit in boxes.

I'm no fan of Amanda Holden but I don't see why she shouldn't express a wish to have another baby in her 40s even though it would be an unwise decision (although she is likely partly motivated to say so in order to gain publicity).

Expectations re relationships and children have changed so much in a couple of generations. There is definitely the expectation that most people will now have several relationships and live with one or more partners before 'settling down'. Divorce is also much more common rather than sticking in unhappy relationships so women are often wanting to start again later on.

I do think that there is a certain percentage of women who think that it is fine to leave having a baby until late 30s/ 40s. I think some are quite naive or choose to ignore the facts. I don't think the media help either- on the one hand constant reporting of celebs having babies in their 40s and on the other scare stories about how terrible it is to have children later in life.

Physiologically, it is definitely best to have babies in your 20s but there may well be lots of other advantages of leaving it until later.

Downtheroad - why yes she was! Best typo I have ever done I feel!

But back to the argument, 50/60 years ago, divorcing would have been less of an option for most people, so she'd have been stick with the wrong man, and probably had dcs in her 20s with him, or rather, would have tried having dcs with him, the issues she had don't seem to have been caused by being older and she might well have had the same problems.

Whenever you face being told " your body can't cope with another pregnancy" when you don't feel your family is complete will be hard, there's no reason to assume she wouldn't have been facing the same conversations with doctors at 30 if she'd had 2 dcs in her 20's. That's hard to hear whenever you hear it.

And yes, pre- birth control, woman did start having dcs earlier, but they carried on having dcs until menopause as well. It's only actually a brief period that woman where still starting families young but able to access birth control so they weren't having them in their late 30s/40s.