To ask what about the *nationalist* bit in SNP and Plaid Cymru?

[drudgetrudy]

Posting here for traffic as it could seriously influence the way I vote.
I'm attracted by the anti-austerity message in their campaigns..but..
Thinking about Plaid Cymru-are they really for everyone living in Wales? I understand the necessity of preserving the unique culture and language-but does this mean that English people living in Wales and non Welsh speaking Welsh people would be well represented by Plaid.
(I have learned Welsh but can't achieve fluency?)
In Scotland too-Is there anti-English sentiment?
Looking for opinions rather than a row. No-one seems to ask this on TV.
Should there be free movement of people within the UK?

I'll be voting SNP for the first time on Thursday.

What has struck me is the number of fervent SNP supporters who are Scottish "by adoption" - not born here but chose to live here mainly from England but from elsewhere too.

The reason I've never been pro SNP in the past has been because I work all over the UK and don't see any major difference in the issues faced by people and businesses in Glasgow, Preston, Liverpool, Leeds, Cardiff, Falkirk, Inverness etc. However, total distrust in the other parties has led me to SNP as offering the best chance of a fairer and more sound economy and society.

I hope we'll see a surge in support for Plaid Cymru, SNP, and the Greens who will be a progressive force in Westminster, and hopefully encourage the Lib/Lab/Cons towards more honest and transparent politics.

Mr Jesus is loading the dishwasher but I'll tell him. He'll be pleased (must be him. Surely there can't be that many English people standing??)

I was trying to work out whether there would be any others :)

Are you around the middle perchance?

Dh is English, and he's voting for him too. We did one of those online quizzes and I think dh scored even higher than I did for plaid :o

I very much like the direction plaid is going in at the moment.

Ahhh, no, we're down south. DH tells me now that around a third of the Plaid candidates are English. Who knew?

I love plaids direction! Im welsh and work for local gov and it just means injections into the places that need it, concentrating on primary schools and more gps.
Dont get me wrong I know that we have it much better here in wales than our friends across the border but it can all be improved. Welsh classes are free to anyone pretty much. So no, I dont think it is anti-english at all

Interesting :) well you can't claim that they're an exclusive party anymore :o

It's going to be a close run thing here. I hope that plaid take it.

My dad is a Plaid voter, and he's an Englishman who has moved to Wales and is only just starting to learn.

I support Plaid but am tactical-voting Labour, and I truly believe that Plaid has the best interests at heart of everyone who lives in Wales, not just the born-and-bred, blood-and-soil Welsh.

There really isn't the huge anti-English sentiment people assume there is. Maybe in a couple of pubs, but those people tend to be humongous dickwads anyway and just thinly veiled it under the guise of 'nationalism'. We're really lovely people, really

I attended our constituency hustings last week. The plaid candidate was like a wet rag. Lovely messages, delivered without an ounce of passion or welsh pride. Real let down.

Can I point out that it is the Scottish National Party, not the Scottish Nationalist Party?

It is a subtle, yet hugely important distinction.

And one that was made very early on in this thread. ;)

Yep, should have RTFT. But the prospect of wading through a thread where there was likely to be post after post of ill-informed anti-SNP, anti-independence and anti-Scotland bile meant I only skim read it.

I have no truck with the SNP but I don't believe the party itself is anti-English but I do believe there is a very strong anti-English sentiment amongst a lot of the supporters of the SNP.

I'm English and a member of the SNP.

IMO the most anti-austerity message comes from the green party. Many similarities with plaid and snp.

I'm an English born yes voter who despite my admiration for Nicola Sturgeon can't support the SNP as I believe that at heart they are a centre right party of the free market. It will be Scottish Greens for me.

"Can I point out that it is the Scottish National Party, not the Scottish Nationalist Party?
It is a subtle, yet hugely important distinction."

It's a distinction without a difference. Sure, it's not nationalism based on race or sectarianism. But it's still a nationalism based on dividing into "us" and "them" just like any other.

I agree with Compos and Fester. And note how NS even used the phrase "anti-tory". I don't want them in again either, with or without the libdems, DUP or anyone else but she's trying (and succeeding) in being divisive. I find the snp openly more disrespectful than most of the other groups. She is the first minister of Scotland - she should be more professional in the way she talks about other parties. Snp is every bit as 'establishment' as it comes in their debating style, campaigning style, party structure, willingness and increasingly in their history of being in government.

our local Plaid candidate is English. ....

Agreed choccoluvva but in five Welsh seats there is no Green candidate standing.

The Plaid Cymru party leader does spesk Welsh but not as a first language. That's still significant though as it's the first time the leader has not been a first language Welsh speaker.

And since everyone's pointed out the national vs nationalist bit, it's Plaid Cymru not Plaid Cymry :o

I'm from the N of England, living in Scotland. My experience is that many of those who express anti-English sentiment tend to focus it on the South. There seems to be a certain amount of shared identity with working class/left wing people in Newcastle etc. One of the reasons I was opposed to independence (apart from the fact it was based on nonsense) is that it would leave the N of England utterly isolated and with even less power than now. The whole balance of power would have lurched even further to the South.

It seems to me that Plaid and Snp claim that they want a better deal for Wales and Scotland because it's deserved, not because they're nationalists. But they have to be either nationalists or protest votes IMO. Neither of which is a good reason to vote for a party IMO.

Even if Wales and Scotland do/did get a raw deal it's probably no worse than other deprived areas of UK. So by speaking up for wales and Scotland, but not the other deprived areas I'm inclined to think their primary motivation remains to achieve independence. Otherwise you'd think they'd be wanting a fairer deal for everyone in UK or for a more federal form of government.

I think devolving power to different areas of England would be a good thing.

The needs of rural wales are very different to the needs of inner city London. We want to spend our taxes on different things.

Wales has some of the poorest areas in Europe and I think that's pretty appalling given how wealthy other regions in the UK are.

My vote isn't a protest vote. When plaid and labour ran the National Assembly, money was put in to green initiatives. That's the nice thing about devolution, your vote matters even more and you're not restricted to voting for the big parties.

Ultimately, I won't be voting SNP because they're failing Scotland. The maximum school class sizes is a joke. My daughter is being taught in a class of 33 by fill-in teachers. Universities are collapsing because they're currently underfunded. There's already a brain drain to England. The oil industry is collapsing. I have three family members working in oil and companies are closing all over the place. They paint a cosy picture of Scotland being s great place, but refuse to acknowledge that on the ground, their policies aren't working. How could anyone want a party like that to take full control of a nation's destiny?