good news for homeowners as house prices increase again

[nettlewine]

So the nationwide are reporting that house prices are up this month.

Seriously this isn't good news, even if you own a home as any step up becomes more expensive and even if you don't and have kids its no life to still be living stuck at home in your 20s and 30s!

The vast majority of homeowners in this country couldn't afford their home if they had to buy it now. The system is broken and its wreaking the whole country and the economy. London isn't a place for londners as they can't afford it and all new builds are sold off plan on Malaysia! Arrg every time I hear the thread title quoted I want to scream.

If only house prices were sensible and people could invest in something useful like producing stuff. I can't see this country as a good place for my children to grow up in.

Eltonjohn

Saved up all his money, lived with friends, slept on their floors and not spent anything he didn't need to.
We also live in NW and he is prepared to get his hands dirty doing them up.

His brother is just starting looking for property now he is 20.
It's quite doable if you make it your priority and are single minded, don't give in to temptation of owning stuff.

Kvetch

just seen your post, the bungalow is in a lovely area and he is no longer at Asda he is a property developer aiming to have a substantial portfolio by the time he is 30.
He's happy and will do well for himself, and its not where you start but where you finish

Ds2 works in a call centre and is viewing houses, ready to buy and start his first property.

So his friends paid for their houses and he kipped on their sofas for years on end? He can't have been earning more than a grand a month. He would've been caging off other people for years. Surely you can see other people can't or won't do that?

or at his gf parents house, or here where he lived until about 19/20
friends houses here and there.
We did the same as youngsters and own two houses now.

I agree other people wouldn't want to do that, but hey, works if you want to have a go.

morethanpotatoprints But that's not possible in many areas of the UK, not just London. And what area you live in can (and should) be to do with more than where houses are cheap- family roots, ties to the community, where there is work in your field. Yes, your son has worked hard and made "good" choices (and also has taken advantage of some of his friends, and some would say, is prepared to take advantage of other people if he wants to own a "substantial" portfolio), but those choices aren't even vaguely open to a lot of people (and some people would refuse to make some of those choices on moral grounds even if they were available). TBH, I am fed up as being prepared to be "dog eat dog" is held up as some kind of moral virtue like being a hard grafter or dedicated at learning a skill.

Thanks for sharing that gypsy, it really shouldn't be that hard but for many it is - and your luckier than most.

Bought a house for cash working on mW for a few years, figures please?

Now wants a fucking portfolio of houses and is a "property developer". Ffs why can't people just be happy to have one home and invest money in productive things that benefit the economy. Property obsession is a toxic disease in this country.

Hard work pays off. Those of us who have our jam tomorrow (at desk working Saturday before 7am in my case today) tend to do better.

My daughter bought her London flat 2 years ago and lived at home or with friends for that period as could not afford to live in it and let it out. She moved into it a few months ago at long last. That is a similar example. She also chose to work very hard at school and university and at work now unlike many so is in a better paid job than some. She got a buy to let loan and yes she did get some help towards the deposit which again I could afford because I am this jam tomorrow person who has deferred gratification and is prepared to graft harder than most mumsnetters. Amazingly the harder most of us work the "luckier" we get at all ends of the social spectrum and all races and classes.

However I am not saying housing is an easy issue. There has been constant state interference in the market. Also if my house is worth £100k or £1m makes not too much difference to me (although it did when my children's father got most of the equity on the divorce - I am probably one of the few long term house owners in London who has paid just about every penny of equity in the house out of earned income !!!) as I will live in it about 40 years more until I die.

I would favour a lot of new rules about house building in cities with property shortages (that by the way is not most places). For example I wanted to buy a lavatory in London unused for years and they wouldn't sell it (to convert to home). If we had a right for citizens to buy unused state property that would be a good start.

There could also be more crowd funding schemes to help people along the lines of help to buy so that as long as they can get 5% deposit together which they may be allowed to borrow too from elsewhere they can buy. 5% = £15k on a £300k property which definitely gets you properties in London by the way. so £15k is £7500 per person in a couple. Sometimes grandparents can raise half of that and the buyer the other half. In other words a 5% deposit is not massively onerous for those in work in any part of the country for their first place. 25% is a very different kettle of fish.

Yes your daughter did really well lotus. Privately educated, university paid for, mummy providing a deposit.... Real hard work there

Wealth passes down. The bank of mum and dad. I've been lucky to have had significant help from my Dad.

The question is:

If you are single starting out on the property ladder, should you be able to afford to buy something?
If you are are a couple starting out on the property ladder, should you be able to buy something?

I think it's much much harder that it once was. Even properties at the lower end of the market are unaffordable to people starting out. Saving for a deposit is hard work when rents are expensive.

Many people starting out are priced out of the market. All these schemes about deposits, etc can't escape the fact that houses are expensive to many people starting out.

Exactly Elton!

You and your daughter don't have the monopoly on working hard.

Your daughter sounds like she's commiting mortgage fraud anyway, funded by your handouts. Well done.

Value of housing outside of London I think is predicated on very low interest rates and when they rise there will be carnage

London however seems to be supported by foreign money and to a lesser extent interest rates but again is capable of a fall if taxation changes or caps on rents are introduced or more importantly the £ crashes against major currencies

Why is it not good news when the price of milk and bread rise

Well of course they are not investment but your own house is not really an investment except possibly the extent it exceeds your personal minimum requirements

It's awful our house is worth half as much again as,when we bought it 4 years ago. It doesn't mean our house is any better or we are better off it just means,we can't afford to move up the ladder to the next step.

I just don't see how millions of home owners paying billions of £ to banks in interest is good for the economy imagine if that money was sloshing around the real economy.

There are thing that could be done but no political party has the balls to do it.
Eg limit annual price rise of houses. Obviously allowances would need be in respect of works but there are ways of doing it.

Treat btl properties as commercial properties impose vat on purchase etc

Tax capital.gains on second properties at higher rates

Introduce mortgages whereby if someone has paid rent for 2 years for example they can get a,mortgage without a deposit which would stop the rental.trap

Stop developers selling properties to non domiciled investors.

Kvetcht - there is absolutely no scam at all! That defamatory. She obtained a buy to let loan and was a landlord for two years. When she was able to afford to move in she applied for a residential mortgage which she obtained at the time. Where is the scam in that?

Where is the mortgage fraud? These are very very very serious allegataions as we are both lawyers. That would destroy careers. I want to know where people think the law has been broken that someone obtains a buy to let loan and lets their property and breaks no rules at all and then once they stop letting the property apply for a residential mortgage and move into the property with every single last rule followed!

Also she does work hard. Some of you on the thread may be with you'd got higher A levels grades and picked better careers and then you could buy a property but perhaps chose not to work as hard - your choice.

If you don't like my example look at the minimum wager example on the thread who worked very hard again was a jam tomorrow person and bought out of London when quite young.

No offence to the son mentioned on here who worked in asda and did up a house but if he could afford it on that wage it will be a house you're very unlikely to make money on- a 2 up 2 down in derby or something. As people have been trying to say continually on this thread, property isn't always a good investment and home ownership isn't worth it at any cost

Agree with Elton on that - it is a huge risk. My daughter made a loss in the 2 years of buy to letting. And took a risk that by buying sooner that would make it easier than had she waited 2 years (in terms of London property prices her risk there paid off but it just as easily could not - London prices are dropping at the moment and have since her sister bought). I sold two buy to let flats in the 90s property crash at a loss.

In life and in our business interests it tends to be women who are prepared to be risk takers who can be successful. I often think I do reasonably well because I am prepared to take risks which other women don't. Of course that means at times I fail too so you have to be able to live with failures and pick yourself up and brush yourself down and keep going.

*moustacheo.

I can't see how anybody has taken advantage of anybody.
Friends do help each other out, don't they.
My ds is very handy, obviously and didn't just stay with friends and give nothing back in return.
I know its not possible for many, but that was my point.
You find out what is possible and make sacrifices to enable you to get to the end result.

nettlewine

What do you think somebody should do when they are made redundant and there are very few jobs around.
I'm proud he hasn't done what others have had to do and sign on.
I'm proud he is industrious, hard working and prepared to make sacrifices in order to own his own home.
I'm proud he has his own business now and so many people want to rent these days, there is huge demand, somebody has to provide houses and councils aren't.
He won't rip people off, he will charge rent at lower end of the market and make money on any houses he sells.
I don't see anything morally wrong with that at all.

Lotus

That's the exact expression I was trying to get across.
We brought our children up with this philosophy and think its especially good for those who may not have done too well at school and not got the fantastic salary and career that others have.
Working hard today for jam tomorrow.

You don't need to have a btl mortgage.
You can save up a deposit, buy a house and then rent it out or sell it, whichever makes better return.
My ds's nor ourselves have done this, it really isn't necessary.
I doubt they'd have accepted us for a btl mortgage or any other large mortgage.

People and families who "are hard working and do the right thing" should be able to:

a) Get an affordable place to rent without the worried of being kicked out in a few months

b) Not have to rely on the Government to top up their rent with HB to make it affordable

or

C) Be able to save up money for a deposit and purchase a starter home /flat in the city or close to where they work.

Yet many people who are "hard working and do the right thing" can't do that.