I Have No Vote in the General Election, Despite Being a Council Tax Paying British Citizen

[TheChandler]

Just this. Am fuming. I should be eligible to vote in Scotland.

I moved overseas on a temporary one year contract with work in September last year, renting out my house for six months. This meant I was removed from the Electoral Register due to a spot check as it did not then tally with the Council Tax register.

I wrote to the Electoral Registrar informing him that by his proposed date of removal (1st April) I would be back paying council tax for my property, as the tenants were leaving and had no further plans to rent it out, and that i was concerned that the closeness to the GE would prejudice my right to vote.

Nevertheless, he informed me that his decision could not be revised, that I would be removed and that I should register as an overseas elector for a postal vote.

I did this, and the postal vote hasn't arrived in time. Nothing at all, despite being a mainstream European country. Post tends to be very reliable.

So I am paying council tax for a property I own in the UK, am a British citizen, and I will have no vote. And by coincidence, I'm actually back for a visit tonight, staying in my property.

Any suggestions?

Richmond upon Thames council could have given out accurate information for starters. And then not lied about when they were able to send out ballot papers. That's how they could have been more organised, Scholes. It turns out they don't even have a Returning Officer at the moment, the council's Chief Exec is currently the Acting Returning Officer.

I think that's the case for most local authotiries.

I think some of the issue is with the accompanying documentation that the government has laid out on how to vote from abroad and how the options work.

The local councils are then being squeezed to try and make the dates, and end up with an earful from people like us who weren't aware that proxy votes were a better bet and that they could be used by non relatives and cast from a different borough.

However, I will say that Southwark electoral services have been worse than useless when I've contacted them, and it took 3 goes to get a straight answer about a) whether I was on the register (I was, took 3 different phone calls and one email to confirm) b) why ballots were delayed and c) how the proxy vote works out of the borough. I know it must be hectic for them atm and I sympathize, but still it's not v helpful.

The other interesting thing is everyone in my old UK house got kicked off the postal vote option when we'd all been registered as one and had to reapply for it. Not sure if this is a country wide thing but it has caused a few issues with people not realising that this was the case, and then having to shift their arse to re-register

meditrina It is the local authority, sorry. Unless it's organised differently in Scotland, but quick google shows info is all on local government pages.

Thanks. I'm probably being optimistic then in hoping to use courier delivery for my vote. Or even in thinking I might get it by the day of the Election.

I really would be very surprised if it arrived at all.

They probably did make an error in removing me from the Electoral Roll, they make errors all the time, but no-one admits to it.

MissSmilla The other interesting thing is everyone in my old UK house got kicked off the postal vote option when we'd all been registered as one and had to reapply for it. Not sure if this is a country wide thing but it has caused a few issues with people not realising that this was the case, and then having to shift their arse to re-register

Do you know when you were all kicked? I was kicked off on 1st. April of this year.

This year some time - think it was in the new year

Is it so much more faff to arrange a proxy than a courier, should your postal vote arrive in time?

Has the deadline for appointing a proxy not passed yet? My ballot paper still hasn't arrived. Like OP I am planning to courier it back by next day delivery if it arrives in time.

When you live overseas do you just get to vote in your former constituency? Whatever country you live in? There would be little point in me doing that, I'd rather vote in Thanet against that smarmy cunt.

I've been living outside the UK for years and it's never bothered me that I couldn't vote there, because the politics has no impact on my life.

Not sure - I'm only here temporarily for work, so I'm registered in my home constituency.

Had the OP told the electoral office that she was about to become an overseas voter back in September/October, when she moved overseas, knowing it was for more than 3 months, there would be no problem. She didn't.

Had the OP appealed within the two week limit, there would be no problem. She didn't.

Had the OP looked into proxy voting v postal voting, there would be no issue. She didn't.

And somehow this is the responsibility of the Scottish Government?

And yes, as an overseas voter, your vote counts in your former constituency.

Yes, Hirples, it is the responsibility of the Scottish Government to ensure that they don't make the exercise of their citizens' democratic rights unduly difficult to exercise. Therefore they shouldn't be making decisions to strike people off the electoral roll 5 weeks before a General Election, with ridiculously short periods for appeal (anyone on holiday for two weeks would have been similarly prejudiced, due to opening hours of the office dealing with it).

I was on the Electoral Roll, there seems to have been some vague but nevertheless existing promise made that no-one would be removed as a result of the changes, but the changes clearly did prejudice my right to vote (still no postal vote has arrived this morning).

So, yes, since the Scottish Government has made it quite clear that it does wish to have responsibility for all sorts of things relating to its citizens, it certainly does have to take responsibility when it gets into a muddle and harms those rights.

Had the OP told the electoral office that she was about to become an overseas voter back in September/October, when she moved overseas, knowing it was for more than 3 months, there would be no problem. She didn't.

And that is precisely because I had no concrete plans to stay abroad at that time for a lengthy period, being granted a 3 month contract which was renewed. Actually a very normal course of events for many workers overseas.

I guess if you dont know if you are going to be in the country to vote or not then a proxy vote is the way to go?

I think people have to take some sort of responsibility, the voting system works for most of the people most of the time.

The new system only removed people from the roll if the only evidence of them being at that address was the electoral roll - many (most?) people needed to do nothing at all as they were switched across automatically.

They always check the electoral roll prior to an election and remove anyone who has no longer at that address - that is nothing to do with the new system AFAIK?

You said before that you were/are on a 1 year contract, and you let your property for 6 months. You knew you'd be out of the country for more than three months.

If I had remained on the Electoral Register, as I was legally entitled to be on 1st April 2015, the date of my removal, I would have made arrangements in plenty of time to ensure that I was in a position to vote. Its not particularly difficult, in these days of international travel.

The problem appears to be that in my area, the agency in charge for some idiotic reason didn't consider the consequences of deleting people from the Electoral Register only five weeks before a General Election. They then compounded that by considering only one piece of evidence (the council tax register) for the making of that decision and refusing to give reasons for not allowing further appeal, as permitted in the relevant legislation.

If my postal vote doesn't arrive, I guess I will have to fly back to the UK to vote but I need some confirmation from the pubic authorities about how to arrange that, so it isn't a wasted trip.

I don't mind using a courier if I my vote arrives some time next week, but I think its sensible to consider what might happen if my vote doesn't arrive at all.

Blaming people for trying to exercise their right to vote, when it has been removed by the State a few weeks before a General Election is unlikely to be successful. It sounds utterly ridiculous.

I have a one year rental contract for my accommodation in Brussels Hirples.

Its entirely up to me or the vagaries of the employment market whether I stay there.

I also own a property in Scotland - which one trumps? Obviously, I can choose where I am resident, and I was removed from the Electoral Register at a date on which the ERO agreed in writing that I was eligible to be on it for that property!

The electoral system.is massive. There are always going to be a few who slip through the net because if circumstance.

You were removed because you were not living at your address, and as far as I can tell when you appealed you were still not living there (but told them you would be in the future?) I dont see what else they could have done.

If I google "over seas voter" the first link is to About my Vote which gives last registration dates, a warning about relying on postal votes overseas, and a link to find out who to contact to find out posting dates for postal votes. It also has information about proxies. The information is there.

You cannot possibly expect the ERO to follow up every individual who is no longer at the address on the electoral roll, find out where they are living and put them on the roll in their new address.

If people want to vote they need to make sure they are registered. This is particularly important if you are moving addresses near to the election date.

The electoral system.is massive. There are always going to be a few who slip through the net because if circumstance.

Then you don't delete people from the Electoral Register five weeks before a General Election.

You were removed because you were not living at your address, and as far as I can tell when you appealed you were still not living there (but told them you would be in the future?) I dont see what else they could have done.

No, I was removed on the date that I was (for the purposes of electoral registration) complying with the requirement of living at my address in Scotland. I went back on the council tax register at the beginning of March, and was removed on 1st April.

I was denied an appeal. Unless discussing the matter via email with the ERO who made the decision is considered an appeal. I would say that its not. A separate body or officer should consider an appeal in order for the appeals process to be valid, and this was denied.

I didn't expect the ERO to follow me up at all, only to consider the new evidence which had transpired before his decision became effective, which I attempted to present to him, and which he refused to consider.

None of this would have been a problem had it not occurred so close to a General Election.

I am a lawyer, I am probably more knowledgable about citizenship rights, including the right to vote, than the ERO, and am particularly knowledgable about European Charter rights such as the Right to Good Administration. I know perfectly well that they have got it wrong. I have also discussed it with a couple of rather senior lawyers, expert in the higher courts here, and they are appalled.

itsallgoingtobefine I looked on you.gov for details on overseas voting as this is the site all the info is posted on and its one of the main government site for all election info. Nowhere on there does it flag that postal voting may not be suitable and you should use a proxy instead due to potential delays.It actually says this:

" if you’re going to be abroad temporarily on election day, you can arrange to:
vote by post
vote by proxy (get someone else to vote for you)
You must make the arrangements in advance.

Vote by proxy if the election is less than 2 weeks away and you haven’t made the arrangements yet. You may not get your ballot paper in time to vote by post."

All the official info only mentions dates in relation to being sure you register by x date for polling to get a postal vote

the about my vote site mentions possible delays, but neither site mentions the fact that postal ballot cards couldn't be sent out before the 23rd April (which is what was confirmed to me by my local returning officer)

As I've said before, if I'd have known that the postal vote cards were going to be sent so later I'd have nominated a relevant proxy. However, they would also would have then had to apply for a postal vote on my behalf as they're not in my constituency I'm registered to vote in, which is another PITA

Which constituency do you vote in? Chances are it'll be an SNP seat on the 8th May anyway with or without your vote

Mmn, interesting. I have emailed the Electoral Commission for advice, and got a very sympathetic response back, suggesting various avenues of complaint. What they did say is that, as was my interpretation, residence is not defined in law, but it has been held by the courts to entail a ‘considerable degree of permanence’.

How that justifies an ERO deleting someone who is eligible to vote for the address they are registered at five weeks before a General Election, I do not know. I have repeatedly asked the ERO for the legal basis for his decision and the two week time limit, and he has repeatedly failed to give a specific answer. Obviously, European law gives me protection, and the proportionality principle has not been applied.

Particularly since they are obviously aware that there is a problem with overseas postal votes, and I was clearly deleted from the Electoral Register for exercising my freedom of movement rights.

None of this assists with my problem of still having no postal vote in my hands, 6 days before the election. So today I checked the process for guaranteed next day delivery. The next day I can do it on is Monday of next week, and it will cost 43.95 Euros. Assuming it arrives before the requisite time on Monday of course, which is 1pm.

ScotsWhaHae Which constituency do you vote in? Chances are it'll be an SNP seat on the 8th May anyway with or without your vote

Lets hope the SNP never appoint you as a PR person. What a national disaster that would be. "Don't bother voting, your vote won't count anyway".

Did you get your vote, and would it have made a difference?