I Have No Vote in the General Election, Despite Being a Council Tax Paying British Citizen

[TheChandler]

Just this. Am fuming. I should be eligible to vote in Scotland.

I moved overseas on a temporary one year contract with work in September last year, renting out my house for six months. This meant I was removed from the Electoral Register due to a spot check as it did not then tally with the Council Tax register.

I wrote to the Electoral Registrar informing him that by his proposed date of removal (1st April) I would be back paying council tax for my property, as the tenants were leaving and had no further plans to rent it out, and that i was concerned that the closeness to the GE would prejudice my right to vote.

Nevertheless, he informed me that his decision could not be revised, that I would be removed and that I should register as an overseas elector for a postal vote.

I did this, and the postal vote hasn't arrived in time. Nothing at all, despite being a mainstream European country. Post tends to be very reliable.

So I am paying council tax for a property I own in the UK, am a British citizen, and I will have no vote. And by coincidence, I'm actually back for a visit tonight, staying in my property.

Any suggestions?

83ash is right - EROs are not responsible for the actual issuing of the postal voting pack - Returning Officers are. There are procedures for obtaining a replacement if yours doesn't arrive by (I think) the fourth working day before the poll. I would contact the elections team at your council to enquire about that.

The first issue of postal voting packs was 21 April, but anyone who registered close to the deadline would only get theirs in a subsequent issue. It isn't usually recommended to have postal votes sent abroad - a proxy is usually a better option if you are worried about being very tight for time.

But do you not keep your vote for 15 years after moving abroad anyway? And was there not an announcement that nobody was going to be removed from the electoral role? I remember it being discussed in First Minister's Questions, because people were concerned the changes to registration would result in people being taken off the register, and Nicola Sturgeon said that she'd been assured nobody had been taken off the register.

Someone I follow on Twitter was told her vote was just being posted out, although I know a lot of people have them and have returned them already.

Could you push for an emergency proxy? There are mechanisms to do that even on polling day.

As a complete diversion, I apologise for my mis-use of role, when I meant roll. I shall hand in my pedant badge forthwith.

Chandler as the postal vote is on the way, but you're not sure about getting it back in time, a proxy might be the best option? I'm pretty sure you can arrange that at short notice.

The grounds for getting an emergency proxy are quite narrow. Your best option is really to follow up with the elections office at the council about a replacement postal vote: you might be able to collect in person if that's possible for you (though I'm not 100% sure about that).

Thanks for the many helpful suggestions on this thread. I suspect it is one of those things with no remedy, but if no postal vote arrives tomorrow, I will contact the Returning Officer. My local authority is very disorganised (I had to ask them to send out a new council tax bill for this FY recently). There were no mailshots from them about electoral registration reform at all.

My application for a postal vote was made as soon as I became aware that the ERO was not going to reverse their decision to delete me from the Electoral Roll, so before the 1st of April. Reading over the correspondence, the ERO informed me that I did as of that date qualify to apply to be readmitted to the Electoral Roll, by virtue of me telling him I was back on the Council Tax register and irrespective of other facts, which begs the question why I was removed in the first place.

However, by this point I felt that there was so much muddle and confusion, that I would be safer registering as an overseas elector, since after all, I had been removed already while paying Council Tax for my UK property. And I was worried about ending up without a vote at all - I had no idea postal votes were sent out so late.

OOAOML And was there not an announcement that nobody was going to be removed from the electoral role? I remember it being discussed in First Minister's Questions, because people were concerned the changes to registration would result in people being taken off the register, and Nicola Sturgeon said that she'd been assured nobody had been taken off the register.

That would tally in with the source another poster linked upthread. It seems incredibly dubious to remove British citizens from the Electoral Register 5 weeks before a General Election with only 2 weeks warning. But obviously what is said in Holyrood is often not followed up, or possible to be enforced - in other words, it can be a pretty meaningless lip service. I'm honestly pretty shocked and disgusted at being in this position a week before the GE, despite doing everything I could to avoid it.

My postal vote arrived yesterday, maybe yours has too.

I. Think the assertion was that nobody would be removed from the electoral roll because of the changes. As far as I can tell you were removed because when they checked you were no longer at your address?

Itsallgoingtobefine I. Think the assertion was that nobody would be removed from the electoral roll because of the changes. As far as I can tell you were removed because when they checked you were no longer at your address?*

Is that a kind of Orwellian doublespeak?

I was removed while I was registered at my address and have it stated in writing that it "sounded like I now qualified" to be registered on the Electoral Roll for that address.

Of course people shouldn't be removed from the Electoral Roll 5 weeks before a General Election on the basis of one letter being sent to them and two weeks notice. I registered as an overseas voter because I wanted some guarantee from them, bearing in mind the 5 week timescale, that my new application for registration would be accepted and that I wouldn't be left without a vote.

That is why all these difficulties have occurred.

The more I think about it, the more angry I become. I am actually considering making a complaint of electoral fraud, relating to the lack of due process in administering the changes to electoral registration. Although encouraging Police Scotland to investigate anything is an art in itself these days.

Nothing has arrived as of yet sash, post is normally here by now. My right to vote has been prejudiced.

Do keep us up to date on the electoral fraud complaint.

I'm still confused. Have I read your OP wrong?

You were working abroad and had rented out your property?
While your property was being rented, the electoral roll was checked - you were not living at that address so were (correctly) removed from the electoral roll?
When you realised this you phoned ERO and said that a date in the future you would be living at an address in the UK (your old address). They said (correctly) that they couldn't put you on the electoral roll at an address you claimed you would be living at in the future?
They (correctly) recommend applying as an overseas voter, you did and this was all processed?
You chose to get a postal vote rather than a proxy vote, despite the obvious issues with overseas postal vote (getting it out and back in time)?

What have I missed? If nothing, I can't see any cause for complaint? Obviously its annoying the way it has worked out, but I can't see anything the ERO should have done differently (apart perhaps from advising you strongly against a postal vote)

When I emailed (hence I have a written record of it) the ERO Itsallgoingtobefine my tenants had moved out, and I was paying 100% Council Tax for the property, as is the rule in Scotland. The ERO then stated that it seemed as if I was eligible for the Electoral Roll based on the property at the same time that he was removing me from it, but would not revise his decision to remove me because I was one day over the two week period for responding against his decision. An appeal against refusal to the Electoral Appeals Officer was also refused, and no reason given for this. So to reiterate, I was removed from the Electoral Roll on a date that I was eligible to be on it, and in the period leading up to it, while I was still eligible to be on it, I argued that I should not be removed, but was still removed.

Whether or not the authorities want to get into the situation of whether a British citizen, employed in two countries at the same time and therefore a British taxpayer (I pay my other tax to the EU) is adjudged not to be living in a property they own and pay Council Tax for, is up to them. I would have thought it would have been quite easily resolved by not making such decisions (to remove people from the Electoral Roll) on two weeks notice, following one letter.

In constitutional terms then, you have the State insisting on its constitutional rights, such as payment of taxes, but at the same time, removing, or making the right of exercise, of the right of representation very difficult. I would say that it is unconstitutional to remove someone's entry on the Electoral Roll so close to a General Election under such a timescale, because of the problems it brings.

I had to then act very quickly to ensure I registered in time to vote in the General Election somehow, and since the ERO seemed so exceptionally reluctant to permit me to vote where I paid Council Tax in the UK, I thought it safer to register as an overseas elector.

Its not up to me as a citizen to interpret things the ERO did not say, but should have done. I had absolutely no idea there was such a problem with postal votes - why would I? But I have certainly been put in this position by the idiotic action of the Scottish Government in writing to local authorities urging them to revise the electoral register so close to a General Election, without putting safeguards in place or fully thinking through the possible consequences.

I have done nothing wrong. In fact, I have been jumping through hoops to make sure I did everything right and within the correct timescales for the General Election, and at the present time, I still have no vote (hasn't arrived today). Clearly I did have a vote, which should have arrived at my property, and this right has been taken away from me, five weeks before a General Election.

Obviously, when constitutional rights such as voting are involved, you would expect the State not to make the exercise of those rights excessively difficult, as in removing them shortly before a General Election without a proper hearing of all the relevant facts.c ad

On what basis would you have been eligible to be on the electoral roll at the property if you weren't living in it? I'm surprised that the ERO said your appeal would have been allowed had you applied in time. The point being that removing you from the roll at the house doesn't deny you the right to vote, it just requires you to register as an overseas voter, which you did.

Who knows Jessie? It seems no-one actually does. I am assuming that on the basis it would be a breach of the most fundamental constitutional rights to deny someone a vote in a democracy in such circumstances? And there are no rules on residence that apply such specific criteria to entry on the Electoral Roll - I have poured over the legislation. Obviously, homeless people can vote - there are far more ways than council tax registration to establish such a right.

But who is to decide that I am not "living there"? If I am a British citizen and pay tax there, and am standing in my own property, I can decide that I am resident there as of that very moment in time. There are no rules that prevent me from doing that. The ERO clearly recognised this by saying that I was eligible. Whether or not I also spend time living abroad is my business. It simply doesn't make sense to lose your citizenship rights so quickly, as they are not replaced by anything else (it takes 5 years residency to gain a vote in another EU country).

I'm surprised that the ERO said your appeal would have been allowed had you applied in time.

He didn't say that - sorry, I'm very pedantic. He said that an appeal wasn't allowed because it was over the two week period. He didn't say an appeal would have been allowed if it was under that period.

You said

The ERO then stated that it seemed as if I was eligible for the Electoral Roll based on the property at the same time that he was removing me from it but would not revise his decision to remove me because I was one day over the two week period for responding against his decision.

I'm afraid that I don't see how the above statement is any different from him saying that your appeal against removal would have been allowed if you had responded to the decision within the 2 week period?

Being removed from the electoral registwr because you no longee live at the address at which you were registered is not taking away your rights as a citizen because you are still allowed to vote as soon as you inform the authorities of your new address. If that address is in the UK you must vote in the constituency where you now live. If it is outside the UK then you still have the right to vote in the constituency where you last lived.

But you do have a vote. I assume you can't qualify for two votes being resident and overseas at the same time, so the problem really just boils down to the fact that you opted for a postal vote rather than to use a proxy for your overseas vote. No?

I used to work in Electoral Services and unfortunately OP there is nothing much that can be done in this situation. It sounds like your ERO was acting lawfully. If you are living outside of the country most of the year then you have to register as an Overseas Voter, the facts of owning property and paying tax are irrelevant to the process.

The only way you could vote now - unless your postal vote turns up - is to present yourself at the Electoral Services office (I think from what you said you were only home for one night though?) with proof of ID and state that you have not received your postal vote - they can cancel the original ballot paper and issue a new one to you, to complete and hand in there and then -although ring them to check if this is an option.

I used to despair of trying to persuade overseas voters that the only sure way to vote is by proxy - the statutory timescales are tight and the likelihood of your postal vote getting there and back in time are pot luck, especially the ones living in Australia etc. The Electoral Commission don't help as they could more actively discourage overseas postal voting, but I digress.

Going back to your situation, I really wouldn't bother complaining unless a standard letter from the Returning Officer would make you feel better.

It sounds like you were taken off the standard electoral register at your UK address during the change to the new Individual Electoral Registration system - the EROs had to check other records (council tax, DWP I think) before automatically transferring people to the new register. If they couldn't get a match for you (as someone else was living there at the time) they would have written and invited you to register, and presumably you didn't respond - because you weren't there? In that case they were correct to remove you and advise you to register as an Overseas Elector. If you're abroad next time, make sure your registration is up to date in plenty of time and for Pete's sake arrange a proxy

It's all a big conspiracy to prevent you voting.

I'm an overseas UK citizen and eligible to vote in the election and registered to vote by post. I was actually back in the UK at the beginning of April and put a rocket up the local authority as to where the postal ballots were. Turns out, after complaining on 3 separate occasions and not getting a straight answer, that the postal ballots don't get issued til the 24th April and that's across the UK

I think this is cutting it fine for normal post voters in the UK, let alone ones outside of the UK, due to international posting delays.

It's all very well advising of a proxy vote, but by the time I'd got to the bottom of it it left me with 1 day to nominate someone, and, tbh, I don't want to have to nominate my parents to do it for me, they have enough on their plate.

In addition, I think that the voting registration information should have clearly stated when the postal ballots were going to be sent, as I would have been able to make an informed decision NOT to vote by post, and it would have given me enough time to set up a proxy.

As an addendum, it is also worth noting that if you are the appointed proxy for an overseas voter, you can apply for a postal vote as the proxy.

This would be useful if you didn't know anyone who in the same polling station area.

I'm an overseas voter. All registered and everything done on time. Except Richmond upon Thames council have sent me an email saying they won't be sending out papers until April 29th. I live in the US so doubt very much my paper will be back in time. I've had various interactions with someone at the council and have since contacted the electoral commission, who have advised me to take it up with the parliamentary ombudsman. Other expats here had their papers long ago, it just seems Richmond can't get their act together. There's another thread about this in Living Overseas, where I also posted. If my paper does miraculously turn up in the next day or two, I'm going to have it courier end back and invoice the council for the bill. The whole thing makes a mockery of the campaign there is currently to get expats to vote. I'm trying! I couldn't even appoint a proxy as they wanted a close family member and we don't have anyone living where we used to live.

I couldn't even appoint a proxy as they wanted a close family member and we don't have anyone living where we used to live.

Your proxy can get a postal vote.

wibbly I'm in the same boat in the US and still no sign of my ballot. My borough in the UK is Southwark, and they have already confirmed that they will not reimburse any overseas postage. I am resigned (if it turns up on time) to overnight express couriering it back to them

re the proxy vote it all seems like a massive pain in the arse; why can't they just send the cards earlier for postal votes??

misssmilla1 the deadline for candidates to stand or withdraw was only on 9th April, so how could they possibly send out a ballot paper in early April? You need the candidates' details so you can vote!

The deadline to apply for or cancel a postal vote was then 21st April, and the Electoral Services' printers will have been busting a gut after the 5pm deadline to get the packs out. The problem is the timescales are tight, and enshrined in law. I'll say it again, if you're an overseas elector, next time get a proxy, as ItsAllGoingToBeFine said, they can even be a postal proxy if need be.

why can't they just send the cards earlier for postal votes

I guess they can't send postal votes out.much earlier as they can't go until the ballot papers have been printed, and they can't be printed until all the candidates are confirmed (which I think is pretty close to the election?)