to think jealousy in endemic in the UK

[groovyrose]

It used to be if someone wanted something they worked hard for it to get it. Now people rather than working just look and moan at what others have and blame others for their shortcomings. The amount of anger I get thrown at me sometimes for being a professional buy to let landlord and born in the post war boom is disgusting.

Which economic theory is that suzanne? Certainly doesn't sound like the Harvard School or ordoliberalism. Are you really meaning to imply that there is only one?

Obviously individual landlords are just responding to market incentives, hate the game not the player etc but ultimately LL's are destroying the economy that they themselves are a part of.
It's the foreign investors, multinationals who are really ransacking the country, when it all goes belly up they ?don't have to live with the fallout

When you look at the link from Likalixer it is clear that the issue isn't that much the Buy To Let system but the fact that landlords don't have to ensure that their houses meet certain criteria. So they get the maximum profit with the minimum investment.

I'm at loss as to how you can have some properties to rent if you don't have people owning them. These people will have to have raised the money one way or the other so unless you are happy to have only the 10% richest people owning properties that are there to rent, I'm not sure how you can avoid that.

I laso have an issue with this idea that it's wrong for landlord to have the rental income as their main income. Looking at properties like this IS taking time and effort, more if you actually do it well.

For comparaison, there are other coutries where the BTL system is present. France is one of them. But you don't have the issues youy find here re how high rents are because the rules for rental are completely different (You can't kick someone out your the property even if they don't pay, price increase are regulated etc etc).

the real issue is the one raised by Sorry. The general level of house prices is crazy and people do carry on playing on that, even with their main house, selling and buying a bigger house etc... to make a profit. All in the hope that once they retire they will be able to sell it for a big profit which will be their retirement pot.
Eg, in some areas where I live, people who have grown up there can't find places to buy. They are on low income (countryside) but most houses are bouht by people has a second house. usually by people from 'down south' with higher wages. now there are few houses left for the 'locals' who ae running the economy of the place.
So similar problems than the ones raised for the BLT but no renting in sight...
Maybe having a second home should also be frown upon?

OP a lot of the anger directed a BTL is due to peoples misunderstanding where to direct their energy. If they are truly upset about it then a much more effective policy would be to vote for politicians that will change the tax rules surrounding BTL.

I am under 30 and have a very high paying job so am lucky enough to easily afford a deposit and mortgage in a nice part of the UK. I feel sorry for other people from my generation who work equally hard but are on much lower wages who would struggle to get into a similar position. I think a lot of them would be offended by any implication that they aren't hard working.

If they are truly upset about it then a much more effective policy would be to vote for politicians that will change the tax rules surrounding BTL

Which of the parties are most willingat least try to do tackle this problem?

still undecided who to vote for, but this would sway me I'm sure

Am in a Linking mood this morning

Seems like labour and lib dems (if they can keep a promise) would sort out some of the tax issues.
Conservatives? I think they 'finally' want to take the housing problem seriously. But, are they genuine?

Decisions, decisions.

^www.theguardian.com/money/2015/apr/18/what-party-manifestos-mean-for-you-tax-housing-pensions-pay^

True I looked before at how much people are earning in average. Instead of a bell curve , what you have a curve that is really bottom heavy, ie most people have low wages!
Another reason why mortgages are just impossible to get for a lot of people so they are stuck in rentals that are very expensive.

It's funny because from an ideological view it would benefit the Tories the most but it would disillusion their existing voter base slightly (Homeowners are much more likely to vote Tory so you would want to increase their number as much as possible, but any changes in the tax rules would be seen as taking a stab at existing peoples assets). I wouldn't be surprised if they did something that wasn't announced in their manifesto thought it will be tempting for them to tackle the demand end of the problem and not the supply.

Labour, Greens and Liberals are the only parties that have announced BTL related policies (Tories just mentioned passport checks) but all of the various party policies are just fiddling around the edges even the long term assured tenancies.

TheMagnificentfour I live in Cornwall....believe you me we frown on second homes! Do we ever frown.....

I thought that one positive thing this government did was to allow councils to exert 100% council tax on second homes (should be 500% IMHO).

In a pedant's moment, OP, what you're referring to is envy - the desire to have what another has/to remove it from them.

Jealousy is the fear of having something removed from oneself.

I know. everyone frowns about it here too.
Unfortunatly, it's still a 'local' issue iywim. Better to have a go at BTL to explain the high cost of houses if it was some BTL at least local people here would have a house to live in!

groovy, you no doubt feel you've worked hard for what you've got, and you probably have worked hard for it. But the fact is that if someone in a different generation had worked like you did, they probably still wouldn't have your advantages. It's all contextual. Oh, and as well as generational factors, you had to be born with certain other advantages (health, certain inherited personality traits, etc.) to be able to work hard, too.

But I agree that fucked off and seeking reformative action (and yes, this may not benefit you much, OP) is preferable to envy/jealousy aimed at individuals. Most people, if given an opportunity to feather their own nest, and those of their children, will do so.

It's just not true you can work hard and get on in life.

Or rather it is completely statistically against you.

The programme below explains how difficult it is to get on. And just because some on here have done it (including me), it is against the odds and incredibly rare.

www.channel4.com/programmes/how-rich-are-you

There are/is
A) some shit landlords
B) a housing shortage, you have houses you don't need. Some people annoyed by this.
Doesn't make them jealous.

Are you a decent landlord, who maintains your properties, charges a decent rent and otherwise treats your tenants properly?

I doubt it, as on your last thread you said that you raise the rent, every year, above the level of inflation.

Op I very much doubt that you've worked harder, or been cleverer than everyone else on the planet who is less well off than you. Similarly, I very much doubt that on average all baby boomers worked harder than everyone else younger than them who is now not so well off at the same stage in their lives.

However the majority of boomers, and very well off people I know are utterly convinced that they got where they did entirely by hard work / genius / sacrifice and anyone with less should just have tried harder / doesn't know they're born etc.

This may not apply to you, but you may find the anger is directed at your attitude rather than your position.

I'm not in a bad position, but it's largely down to luck. So few people ever want to acknowledge that though.

its the little comeback that tenants seem to have for #cleaning# where the house is cleaner than when they moved in, two properties I know where damp wrecked their stuff and the landlord disputed and continued to hold off fixing the roof.

When my parents were young, they worked hard and got on the property ladder. They were lucky and have profited massively from it. They retired at 55 on full pensions, have generous private pensions, winter fuel allowance, exempt fro must yada yada.
I too have worked hard, much much harder than they. I have nothing to show for it.
They will have the luck to have received full pensions for decades. I will be lucky to retire at 70. At that age they will have received a pension for over fifteen years, with a house fully paid for and the massive profits they made. Good luck to them.
It has to be said though, that I am sick of the accusation that I am jealous. I am not.
I am however pissed that I have yo go without to fund their lifestyle and they and their generation are smug and could not give a shit how the rest of us survive.

those who wind up towards the top of the pile are wont to cling to the self serving belief that we live in a meritocracy and therefore their position in life is a reflection of their sheer talent and/or hard work.

Not that these things dont make a difference but luck good or bad (as Woozle points out) tends to have the casting vote.

Those with good fortune are able to get much further with their hard work or ability than those without.

Everything looknow said, and some.

my parents bought their first home in the mid 1960's, they were in their early 20's, they weren't well off, it cost about £3,000, I've just seen it up for sale for £250,000
I very much doubt that a young couple in a comparable situation could afford it as their first home today.

Just looking in from the outside: DH and I moved to the UK about 8 months ago (with our DCs). We are both not British. We have lived in 3 other countries before moving here. Rented in two, owned in 1 (sold before moving) and now we rent here.

All I have to say is now that we live here, I am shocked at the inequality in Britain and how much it is a class society. So I am not sure if "jealousy" is the right word here. Maybe rather "pissed off about the injustice"?

FWIW, I don't work. DH works in the city and has a REALLY good income. We live in the SE (because close to the Eurotunnel and thus family), but we couldn't afford to buy a house in a hundred years (OK, maybe I'm exaggerating there) in the area we live in. So we just pay an insane amount of rent every month to be able to live here. Oh yeah, the rental contracts here are really shitty with regards to tenants' rights when you compare to other countries too.

Anyway, we have proved to be mobile, so at this point, buying is not an option for us anyway as we want to be able to leave when we want to.

Neither the OP nor the older generation per se are responsable for high rents or the housing crisis. Personally I would put it down the banks.

But it is sad, OP, that you want to have people being jealous of you, because that is what comes across. Or maybe you would rather they were jealous of you rather than think that they might have a point.

I agree with PPs who say that it's not exactly jealousy that's rife, it's a tendency to moan that would be considered unacceptable in other countries perhaps. I am not british but my xfil used to moan all the time and try to turn it in to a funny story but he was no victor meldrew.

I also agree that sometimes it seems like nobody can ever make a legitimate complaint about an injustice without being shamed by the 'jelllus' label. That is very true.

to be honest, when dh and I were a young couple and trying to buy our first place, we would look round flats with predominately other young couples viewing, we fell foul of the Scottish offers over system many times - you would be invited to make your best offer at the closing date and the highest one would be picked - and the selling solicitors would tell us we had been successful because the successful bidder had a massive deposit or were a cash buyer because they had money from their parents. maybe they shouldn't have divulged that, but its amazing what people will tell you when you ask.

having worked in a solicitor's office, I know where the deposits come from and its astonishing how many parents bung their offspring a few hundred thousand. nothing to do with buy to let at all. if you ever wonder who buys those overpriced city apartments - not just in London but in many cities across the uk - this tends to a be favourite with the darling offspring huge deposits type - often the purchase price includes full electronic goods.