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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to ask how on earth to handle this? Friends, and termination.

67 replies

Saltybutterandjam · 25/04/2015 11:51

Two of my friends. We all met through an activity through our children. One friend (E) has similar health condition to me and I feel a great affinity for her. She's very kind and warm, but not v politically correct. Other friend (T) is lovely, funny warm and intelligent. I love them both to bits.
T revealed she has had a termination years ago, due to the baby being very disabled and not expected to survive birth. It was very much a wanted baby and she was clearly devastated. E was supportive at the time but since then has largely cut her. If T is going to be at an event, E cancels. If E organises something, T isn't invited and if it's suggested that she's been forgotten, E cancels. It's sad, horrible and awkward. I don't want to be caught in the middle, I don't want to take sides, and I yhink E is wrong but not sure how to proceed. E has also been quite vocal in T's presence about how she thinks termination is awful and she would never have had one. I wasn't there but T was understandably horrified.
What to do?

OP posts:

GoGiYerHeedAWobble · 25/04/2015 12:49

Sorry but she is spiteful.

Your friend had a termination because her much wanted baby wouldn't have survived. That is one if the most selfless decisions a parent can make.

Your other friend is using that gut wrenching decision as a stick to beat her with and preach her narrow minded views on abortion.

If she hasn't been in the position of having to consider a medical termination there is no way she should be judging anyone else.

In your shoes I wouldn't think twice about dropping your nasty friend.

DoJo · 25/04/2015 12:49

I honestly don't think she's thought how hurtful she is being.

Being thoughtless is a failing in itself though - if she really lacks the emotional understanding to realise that her judgemental comments are likely to make T feel awful about an already horrific situation, then she is probably going to have countless similar situations blow up over the course of her lifetime.
I could almost understand someone feeling differently about a termination for other reasons (although I would strongly disagree and support any woman's right to bodily autonomy). But to use a horrific event like this as an excuse to exclude someone from a previously supportive friendship group is unforgivable. Whether that's deliberate or due to lack of thought, it's not a character trait I would want from a friend.

MissBattleaxe · 25/04/2015 12:56

Stop defending her OP

WizardofSnoz · 25/04/2015 12:59

What is your health condition? Does it have any bearing on the situation?

I'm just thinking, does E maybe find the situation difficult to deal with because perhaps she feels that if she had been T's baby she would also have been terminated? That might be a very difficult thing for her to

Original poster

Saltybutterandjam · 25/04/2015 12:59

I'm defending her (if that's really the right word) as she's not the personification of evil! She's in all other ways kind and I'm finding it difficult to reconcile her behaviours.
I've decided to call her on it.

OP posts:

WizardofSnoz · 25/04/2015 13:00

Sorry, for her to deal with.

BabyTuckoo · 25/04/2015 13:06

Hang on, OP, as it's not clear from your post - do you know for a fact that it's because of the termination that E is cutting T? Has she actually said that she no longer wants to be her friend specifically because she had to terminate a longed-for pregnancy in hideously difficult circumstances???? Because that's not the act of someone who is basically kind, that is the act of someone moronically insensitive and cruel. (Not sure what being 'politically correct' has to do with anything...?)

Unless there's more going on, and E had a termination herself at some point and is finding it difficult being reminded of it?

Original poster

Saltybutterandjam · 25/04/2015 13:10

No I don't know for an absolute fact, but that's what T has said - that E was very vocal in her presence about it.
But this week E very obviously cut out T from something, I thought it was a mistake but T reckons not at all, it's cos of the termination.

OP posts:

SingingHinnies · 25/04/2015 13:14

I don't think i could remain friends with E if she is going out of her way to make T feel guilty or uncomfortable, she thinks termination is awful and she would never have had one so that's her choice but she hasn't been in T's position so she has no idea what she would do because nobody does until they are faced with that awful situation.

She has made her decision, she doesn't agree with it and has decided she doesn't want to be friend's with T, there is not a lot you can do about that.

All you can do is remain friends with both of them and have seperate relationship's or cut one of them as you don't agree with their choices/beliefs which is what E has done to T.

I could remain friends with someone who doesn't agree with terminations even though i am pro choice, that's there choice but i know a few people who have said they would never ever have one as they don't agree with them then forced with situation have then changed their mind, that's why i would never end a friendship because they don't agree with it as i think a lot of people would say they don't agree with it because they have never been in a situation where they would have to have one. I personally couldn't stay friends with someone if they were using their beliefs to make someone else feel guilty about their choices having never had to make that choice.

HappinessHappening · 25/04/2015 13:14

I don't think E is being spiteful, she just sounds like she no longer wants to be friends with T. Surely we've all been in the position of no longer wanting to be friends with someone for one reason or another? I don't agree with E's reasons for not wanting to be around T (if it is just due to the termination) but we all have to make out own choices on who we choose to have in our lives

If you like both of them then just see them seperately, but you can't force E to spend time with T (and I doubt T will want to see E after this)

BabyTuckoo · 25/04/2015 13:20

So it's T who thinks it's because of the termination, not you? I think I was assuming that T had her termination recently, and was thinking that T was still grieving and shocked, and that E had supported her through the aftermath, and T was understandably sensitive to perceived slights, but re-reading your OP, I see the termination was years ago, but it only came up recently in conversation between E and T...?

In that case, I'm not sure I understand how E can have been 'supportive' but also vocally opposed to terminations because of a fatal medical condition in the same conversation? How can someone warm and kind have looked at a friend and essentially told her she was wrong, and should have continued to carry a dying unborn baby to term???

DoJo · 25/04/2015 13:20

I don't think E is being spiteful, she just sounds like she no longer wants to be friends with T.

She may not want to be friends with her any more, but making her feelings about terminations known in front of someone who has had to have one under horrendous circumstances is incredible hurtful. I have had people who I no longer wanted to be friends with, but I would never have used sensitive information about them to facilitate that even if the information itself contributed to my decision.

MistressDeeCee · 25/04/2015 13:45

Id get rid of E to be honest. She's trying to do another woman down over a situation that was very traumatic and difficult for her. Not the kind of person Id want around my life at all. She IS spiteful, no doubt about it. Explaining away her nasty behaviour doesn't change that. You're obviously a pretty fair-minded person but sorry, she's berating your friend in her presence and decent, kind people don't do that kind of thing. At all.

MistressDeeCee · 25/04/2015 13:48

I am anti-abortion. Thats MY view. I know at least a couple of my friends have had abortions..thats THEIR choice. Why do some people have to judge others on their very personal circumstances? Its as if they have a great need to judge in order to gain the moral high ground, or feel better about themself. I cannot stand people like that. I can't get past the fact that E feels its perfectly ok to say what she's said to a woman, a so-called friend, who has had a termination. Its NOTHING to do with her whatsoever. How is it that nasty people who do things that are blatantly abhorrent can always get someone to say they are "nice in other ways" or some such *sigh

PurpleSwift · 25/04/2015 13:52

E is not the kind of person I'd want to spend time with and id tell them exactly why.

teawamutu · 25/04/2015 13:54

If someone is 'in all other ways kind' apart from when they're making a friend feel like shit over a horrific, painful decision, they're not kind. They're cruel and selfish, with a veneer of niceness when it suits them.

And if they genuinely aren't doing it on purpose that's not really much better - in that scenario, they're insensitive and self-righteous.

I couldn't remain friends with someone after getting either insight into their character.

timelyreminder · 25/04/2015 14:25

It's times like that when people see who their real friends are. Anyone can be "nice" when things are going smoothly and there's nothing difficult happening. Can E not even see that T chose what she felt was the kindest outcome?

BatteryPoweredHen · 25/04/2015 14:35

Anybody with anti choice views would be quickly dropped from my life if/when I found out. It would overshadow anything else they said/did/were like.

Ditch this horrible misogynist and hold T close.

hidingfromthem · 25/04/2015 14:38

this E sounds like a cunt.
get rid.

Mamus · 25/04/2015 15:05

Call E on her appalling behaviour. If she doesn't show contrition and make amends, ditch her and make sure she knows why. Mind you, if I was T, it would not be possible for E to really make amends, although I would appreciate an apology.

Topaz25 · 25/04/2015 15:06

I wouldn't associate with E. If she can turn on someone and cut them out of the group at such a difficult time in their life she could do it to you too. I was treated like this once after a relationship break up. There was one spiteful former friend gossiping about me and encouraging others not to invite me to events etc because she didn't agree with my choice to end the relationship. It's very hurtful, childish behaviour. E needs to learn that her behaviour is unacceptable. There is a difference between personally not wanting to be friends with someone and trying to turn a friendship group against them by criticising their choices, excluding them from group events and even throwing a paddy and cancelling the event if it's suggested that person be invited. If she doesn't want to hang out with T one on one fine, but she shouldn't impose that on group events or refuse to be civil to her in conversation.

lithewire · 25/04/2015 15:16

E is completely unreasonable. I'd drop her like a hot potato!

laughingcow13 · 25/04/2015 16:20

I find it amazing that people think that in order to be friends you have to have the same opinion on absolutely every issue.
E is entitled to her opinion that abortion is abhorrent the same as you and T are entitled to your opinion , that in some circumstances it is justified (which I believe too).
Both women are warm and funny and you like them..Their quarrel iswith each other, you don't need to take sides or get involved.

SlaggyIsland · 25/04/2015 16:43

laughingcow she may be entitled to her opinion, as vile, ignorant and hurtful as it is in this particular set of circumstances, but OP is equally entitled to hers, and to not be comfortable with her friends unkindness.

Thurlow · 25/04/2015 16:46

Laughing, this isn't like cutting someone out of your life because they vote Tory and you vote Green.

This is about a woman who it seems has deliberately upset another friend at what is clearly an unimaginably difficult time for her.

You don't have to have the same opinions. But you do have to learn when it's appropriate to share them. If it was religion that was the issue here, not termination, E would be just as much of a bitch for cutting out T because they disagreed over religion.

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