to ask how to explain to my colleagues why they shouldn't vote Ukip

[msgrinch]

That's it really I've tried my best but they're both fixated on immigration.

I think it's been established far and wide why UKIP gets such a bashing when the other parties don't.

Democracy means we can debate our points of view. If someone wants to try and persuade me to vote UKIP, that's great. If I want to try and persuade them not to, GREAT.

Luckily we live in a wonderful place where neither of us will be stoned to death for such things.

But surely, if you're going round at work volunteering the information that you think UKIP are great, you're inviting the opening of a political debate?

At the very least you should be quietly warned that some strange, strange people consider UKIP's scapegoating of immigrants to be racist, and that it might be considered impolite (or indeed harassment) to mention your voting plans in front of non-British or non-white co-workers...?

Lasswithballs "Don't try and sway anybody from voting who they want. Just promote who you are voting for and why you are."

Er... these two sentences contradict each other.

Not really Boulevard
On the sandwich run, my colleague orders the chicken salad.
I order the cheese and pickle.
I do bang on a bit about cheese and pickle
But I don't think I should slate her for her Choice.

Well, why would you bang on about cheese and pickle if you weren't trying to influence her views?

Thanks for all the comments, definitely taking all on board. We're very quiet at work at the moment so various topics come up and it's hard to shut topics down sometimes. I do accept if I'm being unreasonable. Sorry for lack of replies, a friend has been diagnosed with testicular cancer so I've been a bit distracted.

A friend of mine just sent off their postal vote and it was for UKIP. He is university professor. Clever people vote UKIP too. And, personally, I pray they will get enough seats to send a rocket up the arse of this country.

Have they explained to you why you should vote Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, Green, etc, etc? If not, how would you feel? Grumpy about that too I should imagine.

It's none of your business who they vote for. If you don't like what you hear, stick your headphones in and don't discuss it.

Yes they have. Repeatedly. Our Saturday girl was in today and was as shocked as I am.

Grinch. Shocked? About voting UKIP? Not anymore. Before the euro elections they were new and people were wary. Now, as I've seen, people are I. More open to discussing them, their policies and why they do and don't vote for them. And I think it's a good thing. As for the rocket up the arxx statement. Well put. Any party that gets the other main parties shook up and start to talk about issues that the general populace discussing the. Right or wrong, agree or disagree, get it out there.

UKIP offer a change, they won't get in but they and to a lesser extent the other parties like the greens are pushing the main 2 to shake up a bit. Political arrogance has kept things at a status quo too long in my book.

I hope it keeps going.

And Grich , sorry about your friend. Just re-read the message.

Wind chime, it was your rocket I was praising

If you can't articulate it yourself and need to come here to be spoone fed... I'll respectfully suggest you just use the one vote you have to vote for the party you wish and leave other people to do the same... After all it is a democracy.

Sorry to hear about your friend msgrinch hope he's ok in the long run. I think who you're voting for and trying to influence the voting of others are topics best steered clear of at work. If you can't redirect conversations it might be worth just being up-front about it and trying to reach an agreement that you'll all steer clear of politics whilst the election campaign is running, it could be a welcome break for you all.

How about you just vote for who you want and leave everyone else to it.
They're adults for god sake.
I can't imagine UKIP winning anyway so I wouldn't worry about it!!

Some people don't know about the policies and can't be bothered to read them so they ask other people that they know why they should or shouldn't vote for a party.

As I understand it, msgrinch was not actually telling them not to vote for UKIP, but they asked her why they shouldn't and she wanted to find a way to articulate her views to two young males in a way they could relate and understand her point of view.

I think the problem is that there is a divide and unless you live in an area that is heavily population with immigrants, it's harder to see the problem. I never thought I was a racist person, then I moved to Oldham and saw all the problems and it makes me feel like I am a racist. However, I know I am not making up all these problems in my head and something about areas like Luton, Oldham, Rochdale, etc. needs to be done. There is far too much segregation and it breeds hate and intolerance.

subterfuge - you're spot on that it's division and segregation that breeds discontent. Them and us. It's so easily forgotten that parents everywhere want their children to have chances in life. Not every parent is a good parent but it isn't creed, colour or class that signifies that. Alienating first generation immigrants by not providing translated documents doesn't help them help their children to integrate. How many bBrits abroad (families rather than individuals married to a foreign national) integrate properly?

Shocked? About voting UKIP? Not anymore.

I would be shocked if I met someone in real life who said that they were going to vote UKIP. It would certainly change my view of them, and I'd edit them quietly out of my life.

I agree about political arrogance. I don't think ukip is the answer. Funnily enough, I think mn is much more of an answer. I think that the Westminster political bubble was never affected by real people. I think the rise of the Internet and modern hung parliaments are not coincidental. They're causally linked. I also think the Daily Politics, pmqs and Questiontime are not helping at all. For me, all those shows, traditions, ask the wrong questions. For me, the question is, why do we have to suffer this shower of bunkum in the first place?

because i like the c&p sandwich. Its lunch time, so we are talking abot sandwiches and i think there's a difference between positively reporting on my enjoyment of my sandwich and telling my friend she has the wrong sandwich.
She enjoys hers. That is the right sandwich for her. Sometimes she complains they've under seasoned it, sometimes she says "mmm, perfect" but she is not trying to tell me that I should have the chicken. Just telling me she is enjoying her lunch.

Bringing the subject of chicken sandwiches, at all, at lunch time, does open the possibility for someone to remark that most supermarket chickens have campylobacter bacteria. It's really only the consideration of the informant which prevents her from sharing this information. If we didn't want to get into a discussion about chickens (or ukip) it might be wiser simply to keep quiet about them.

I was going to go with the analogy that "I'm not a racist but I'm voting UKIP" is like saying "I'm a vegetarian so I'll have the chicken salad sandwich"

"Um..I'm pretty that has meat in it?"
"Don't be ridiculous, I would never harm an animal, and nor would my DP, so if we are eating it, of course it's vegetarian. Look, salad! Vegetarian."

Some of the UKIP policies actually make sense. They are not anti-immigration, they just want to limit it to skilled workers where there is a national shortage of applicants for the jobs. The policies seem incredibly similar to those of Australia and no one shouts 'racist' at them

I don't get it either even though I'm not a UKIP supporter
If people feel so strongly against UKIP, because of them wanting to get tough on immigration, why is there not the same level of hatred towards Australia? (who have a really tough system on immigration - they make UKIP look like Mother Teressa in comparison)
they think nothing of escorting people on boats straight back to where they came from, or paying another country to take them off their hands!^
And yet, nobody's boycotting them, labour supporters are more than happy to send their little darlings off on gap years to the place, will happily holiday there themselves, buy Australian goods....ec
I have yet to hear of a person in RL or on MN say anything against Australia.

People are so Two Faced and inconsistent

by the way, I love Australia and most Australians I've met have been great

"Bringing the subject of chicken sandwiches, at all, at lunch time does open the possibility for someone to remark that most supermarket chickens have campylobacter bacteria"
Only if you're lunching with an insufferable bore. Doragora

Try pointing out to them that they're agreeing with Ian Brady, according to today's papers.

Er, lots of people think that Australia is an extremely racist country and especially has an abominable record on asylum seekers, likalixer