to ask how to explain to my colleagues why they shouldn't vote Ukip

[msgrinch]

That's it really I've tried my best but they're both fixated on immigration.

This kind of thing annoys me on mumsnet. It's pationising, people can vote for the damn party they like. It's why we have a democracy, and why we have the election. It's not up to other people to "educate" others on who to vote for. I am not voting UKIP but I respect that people have the right to choose.

Leave your collegues alone, it's not down to you to tell them anything.

Kampeki It might come from where you work, at DHs you aren't allowed to discuss inside or show an affiliation outside of work. I personally think politics, sex and religion shouldn't be discussed at work but should (if wanted) outside of working hours because it's unprofessional- it can make people uncomfortable especially as it's a confidential vote. It can aggravate and cause tension as it is in OPs case, it can also cause offence if people try to 'convert others' to their way of thinking which tends to happen a fair bit (or appear to) when people get passionate about something. Same goes for moral debates like abortion and the like (unless part of the job)

Kampeki No, not with some parts certainly and the way it was written it appeared accorss the board. DHs places code of conduct is very specific about how to act during this time and appearing to remain neutral is emphasised- more so at work but certainly personally too. There's sections on social media and debating etc.

Can they do any worse for us than labour, conservatives and lib dems have recently done? Who else is there left to vote for? It's not like they're the BNP - some of the UKIP policies actually make sense. They are not anti-immigration, they just want to limit it to skilled workers where there is a national shortage of applicants for the jobs. The policies seem incredibly similar to those of Australia and no one shouts 'racist' at them...

Flora most of those websites (and certainly the main one) are not unbiased. I know the main one claims to be but it's not. They have been selective about which policies they have used and presented them in certain way to guide people to choose answers which will tell them to vote for the parties that the people that run the website want them too. In the case of the one with the most publicity this is Labour and the Greens.

Do a little research on the site and although it says it is unbiased you will discover that the main people involved with it are left wing activists. Who run a website which tells people they should vote for left wing parties. Funny that isn't it? If right wing activists ran a similar website telling people they wanted to vote for UKIP there would be uproar.

Are you kidding? Australia's policy n immigration and their internal policies are widely recognised as racist.

Also if it's wrong to try and educate people on who to vote for why am I getting all these leaflets through my door?

If they're voting UKIP they clearly need some kind of help from someone.

Well, yes. But, nobody has that kind of expertise, or the patience to go with it. I find it best to write some people off.

The leaflets are for people who still have a wood burning stove.

its a free country, you can vote for anybody you like and no one can force their views on others

They SHOULD vote for UKIP if that's who they want to

It's called democracy. Most people like it as a concept...

I read an interview with David Starkey the other day. He made a very interesting point.

He said that we were losing the ability to see that it was possible that people who didn't agree with us might have a point. People want to ban, legislate against, silence and persecute (via employment or rights to hold public office, or speak or write publicly) people who might hold viewpoints which differ from our own.

I agree with him. Mumsnet is often full of very good examples of this. People who are unable to accept that people who hold different views from them on politics, religion, abortion, the roles of men and women etc, etc, etc, actually have a right to hold different views from them and shouldn't either face sanction for it or face some kind of reeducation.

I don't really know why you are making it your business to tell your work colleagues who they should or should not be voting for.

You are unlikely to change their mind, as long as you are happy in your voting choices that's all you need to concentrate on.

That's what living in a democracy is all bout, choice.

I think some posters are a bit confused. Disagreeing with people and challenging them on their views is not the same as denying them their democratic rights.

Are some people's principles and grasp on reality so fragile that disagreement might destroy them?

I don't understand - if you know it's wrong why don't you just explain why? If you don't know why it's wrong then why are you so sure it is?

I'm no UKIP supporter but you really should know a few arguments/reasons if you're particularly keen to convert people to your way of thining.

WizardOfSnoz - debating with someone is the exact opposite of silencing them.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however many UKIP voters seem to feel entitled to their own facts as well. They aren'.

I think a good debate is fine, but it's quite different to saying to someone no, you CAN'T vote for them
OP why don't you explain to them why you're not voting for UKIP? You obviously disagree with their policies, so point out what you don't like about them. Challenge their opinions, put forward a different way of thinking.
By human nature we all have different opinions and points of view on subjects, but I really believe people should be informed and know exactly what they're voting for. That said, you will never get everyone to think the exact same way as you. Some people really really believe in what UKIP stand for. I'm not one of them, but there are people out there who believe they are the solution.

Btw, if you were discussing this at my workplace you would get told to shut up and do some work!

I'm in the us and people here love to get into heated discussions about politics. When asked I reply with 'It's great that you are so interested in democracy and getting to the polling booth.' That diverts the coversation 99% of the time and if it doesn't I say 'It's great we have different opinions and that they are represented by different parties.'

My grandparents suffered a lot during and after WW2 so we could vote for who we want. I'm not here to tell someone they are wrong in choosing a party/person to vote for. Let them figure it out themselves.

I saw a UKIP stall today (here in London) and it was manned by 3 black people (2 women and a man).

I think some posters are a bit confused. Disagreeing with people and challenging them on their views is not the same as denying them their democratic rights.

Well said. Since when did discussion and debate have no place in a democracy?

Of course people have the right to vote for whoever they choose, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong to challenge people on their views. Actually, I think discussion and debate should be at the heart of every democracy. Much better that people should make considered and well-informed choices, having heard the different arguments, than that they blindly vote for whichever party has the most immediate appeal.

Well you really ought not to be telling others how to vote. That is not how democracy works.
Although, if you are troubled by their choice and yet cannot think of how to explain why they are in the wrong maybe they're not.

Fwiw, My main reason for not voting UKIP is that I am troubled by their pledge to apply a 50 -50 rule to residency for children in separated families. I realise that this initially seems positive and fair, but imo it's unhelpfully arbitrary and fails to recognise (or rather, tramples all over) the reality that the majority of children's main carer is their mother and rigidly looking to change that in a attempt to appear to be doing the "just" thing is not really planning in the best interests of children.
They talk about "Grandparent's rights" too.
I think it's an illustration of how they fall short in the ara of children's rights, and probaly women's tights too tbh.

Your time would probably be better spent finding someone to explain to you how to tolerate other peoples' choices.

Hi

I joined this morning and started on the thread 'AIBU I want to vote UKIP loud and proud'. I got a bit of barracking but also a few good points.

However, I must say, and not being patronising, that this thread seems a whole lot more tolerant and discussion based.

I am a UKIP supporter after not voting at all. I think they are far from perfect but do offer a change, listen and talk to the general public and answer a question directly and by straight talking. I agree with a lot of the comments here saying that who people want to vote for is their business and you should debate and question but not take the moral high ground and suggest people are wrong if they don't vote for the party you are voting for (this was my general theme of the last thread, that you should not patronise people and call them stupid etc if they didn't agree with you).

I just find it strange that members of other parties vilify, attack and hound UKIP. I don't see other parties and their members getting the same terrible treatment. I would never attack anybody due to their political beliefs as I see it as an aside and not the whole of the person.

Sorry, I'm rambling, back to the OP. Don't try and sway anybody from voting who they want. Just promote who you are voting for and why you are. It's only politics in the end, don't fall out, lifes too short. And if you feel uncomfortable at work, change the subject, go to the toilet, make a cuppa.

That said........ Loads at my office are coming out the woodwork since the European elections.........

The reason that the threads are different is because the issues are different. If one of msgrinch's colleagues came here asking do you think it's a good idea to vote UKIP, they'd be told how ridiculous it is to do that. If they asked can I vote for whomever I like, they'd be told, yes. You can. One is a question about the wisdom of supporting UKIP and the other is a question about who you can and can't vote for.

Dora explorer

I don't get you? Yes I get that threads are different and your last point, who should you vote for? I thought the concensus here was you vote for who you want to?

Threads are different but surely if someone has read the last one it relates to this one?

Half right. The issue is whether or not it's right to download anti ukip views on a ukipper. And, it's perfectly reasonable to do it if the kipper solicits opinions. But, if the kipper is just going about her daily business, emptying the bins and whatnot, then it's wrong to come on strong about what a monster Nigel Farage is. He's still awful. But, it's not appropriate to say so, under those circumstances.