Why are there so few posts on the feminism board? (Part 2)

[Jackieharris]

Since the last one filled up I though I'd start a new one as the conversation seemed to be mid flow.

I had a quick look to see what comes up for 'let me educate you', and didn't really find it TBH. I did find someone apologizing for asking, but asking if they could be educated on the WoC thread, and a debate around that, and people talking about educating their boys.

Also, what is very hard for some women, even feminists, to realize is that men are doing the oppressing on purpose. That it's not an accident. It's strategic and deliberate.

This, in a nutshell, is why I generally don't post. NB sakura I am not attacking you or your views; of course it is your right to hold whatever views you like; but you have just summarised clearly one of the central tenets of a feminism that is not mine.

But why can't you post to say you don't agree with it? I don't agree with it when it comes to men as individuals - most of them are just living with the society we have, and have never really thought about whether it's oppressive or not, and they just manage stuff to maintain the status quo, rather than deliberately thinking, "I'll do that, because it will not be good for women." But I'm happy to stick around and discuss why I do or don't agree with it, and I am sure some people will disagree with my stance, but that's fine. Life would be terribly dull if we all agreed on everything.

(Also, Easyjet customer service is far better than BA's, IME.)

It's the total failure to accept any criticism that will mean that the feminist board will always be a highly defensive inclusive little club.

It's the total failure to accept any criticism that will mean that the feminist board will always be a highly defensive inclusive little club.

But there are posters like that all over MN, so I don't think FWR should be singled out. I also wouldn't say there is a total failure to accept criticism. There is sometimes a failure by some posters, but total failure? There's rarely anything in life which is that black and white, and message boards are no exception.

There is debate there. I am a free market libertarian capitalist feminist. A lot of (very misguided wrong) feminists seem to be very left wing. Some even think staying home is some kind of sanctified wonderful role (more fool them). Those issues can be debated and ultimately as I am right I shall always prevail. Gather hither - I have the way, the truth and the light.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a2316090-Feminism-for-women-of-colour

Just for the record, quite a few of the names that I recognize as "regulars" on FWR did post on this thread, including me (under an earlier nickname).

No, I am I. I do not that often go on the feminism threads although I have been a feminist since my mid teens when all those wonderful 1970s feminist books came out which were always top of my reading pile and have resulted in my having such a wonderful life.

I do find an element of lack of tolerance on the mumsnet feminism threads for right wing feminists who believe in capitalism at times and I think it's utterly sexist to censor women with views who like to win arguments rather than telling girl friends their bottom doesn't look big in the dress (hate nice nice nice nicely women in florals kind of thing as I have human characteristics of liking to triumph over all and find it very sexist when people suggest that kind of ambition is "male").

The right to offend - see Paris cartoons and the like. It's very important but particularly hard to engage in it in places where women post because they seem to have very thin skins. What I don't want is a UK where everyone has to hold the views of everyone else.

You see? The accusation you can't take criticism has to be criticised because it isn't nuanced enough.

Now we end up arguing about the semantics of the sentence, which conveniently wastes time and sidesteps the actual point.

I am sure that the feminist board members have great intentions. But I just don't have the time to plough into attempting to make a point.

"I may have jumped in too harshly about a few things.
However your last line about me I take as a personal insult."

Which last line about you? If I have personally insulted you I wholeheartedly apologize. But if I did it was entirely accidental!

Jeanne thank you for your reply. You don't have to be a woman of colour to contribute. Inorder to get our concerns onto the agenda we need both WoC and White women. It is not hard for any woman whatever colour to understand what oppression or inequality is, we face it everyday just in different ways. Whilst white women complain about inequality with men think about how you have also enjoyed these same privileges (without even knowing it) against other women, or at least start to think about it, ask questions and you will see many ways in which you have benefited from a racism.

Support WoC by listening to their views also and adding these to the policy agenda. Point in case is a thread going at the moment about a Womens' equality party, someone raised the point of considering issues such as race, religion etc the prompt response was 'these items are not priority for us, we are only about women's equality (paraphrased). Hence the agenda continues to be about what affects only a particular class of women.

Keeping silent infers the following:

These women are separate from us.
Their concerns are not our concerns
They are trouble makers who will derail our cause.
We are simply not interested.

Thanks, Thetruth.

I never meant to imply any of those things. I just read the thread title as signalling that it was a thread for women of colour.

I've seen posters on aibu torn to shreds if they've admitted to ever wearing make up or ever having ironed a shirt for their husband...so whilst I believe in feminism and equality I don't fancy going on the feminism board tbh.

It's levied to the board as a whole. It's the actions of the herd rather than any particular individual. It would be unfair to pick out one person in particular to choose to be at fault.

There's asking questions to try to understand someone's viewpoint and there's refusing to truly engage with them by acting as if their view is down to a lack of broad perception of the conspiracy of sexist society.

I don't want to be spoken to like a fool who can't see the world I live in. So I, like many others, am unable to join in with the feminism on mumsnet. Which is a shame.

Agree with RaspberryJam very much.

Buffy, I wouldn't find fault or be sensitive with your last post. Can you honestly, hand on heart, say that it's like that on the FWR board? It may not be like it on any other board either, but feminist issues due seem to bring out the strident worst in some posters.

As I say, it's nothing that I think you personally are guilty of. It's not an individual's style of debate. Like someone mentioned earlier, it's the "not my Nigel" blanket reactions. Just one example.

The voices of the feminism board are loud and strong, but perhaps that strength works against them and ensures that only the strong can survive amongst them.

I don't know how to stop it. It's like trying to stop a tide. Maybe those in the tide need to change the flow, rather than expecting an outsider to come and argue against them.

Very good post MsRaspberry

I used to post loads, under another name, on fwr. Largely in the Dittany era. I also posted a lot on previous threads of this ilk. I like to think that I was measured and thoughtful in my posts, however my attempts to understand the opinions with which I didn't agree were routinely ignored in favour of bun - fighting. All those on here claiming that views contrary to the perceived bias were ignored or belittled clearly had me on some hide poster function because, believe me, I tried hard to engage. Partly because of threads like this but mainly to understand.

What is particularly notable to me is how quiet the boards were for many months at a time when prolific posters buggered off, but the vacuum wasn't filled by anyone on here who claims to want to post but can't. It was all yours. But you didn't want it.