To ask if this is how retail is?

[Fairyliz]

My DD is at uni and 18 months ago got a 12 hour a week contract at a high street store. Obviously she can work more hours during the holidays but 12 is probably the maximum she can manage during term time.
Straight away her boss started putting her in for more shifts and what was even stranger was that the shifts changed from week to week. So one week she would work Mon/Weds/Sat the next would be Tues/Fri/Sun. As you only knew your shifts two weeks in advance it was very difficult to plan anything.

The final straw was when all staff received a letter from head office saying although her contract is for 12 hours she has to be available for 24 if required which is impossible with exams coming up.
So she resigned from that job and got another one for eight hours a week. She started last week and yes you've guessed it her boss has put her in for 20 hours the first week. Even worse you only learn the shifts you are doing on Friday night for the week starting Sunday. She told her boss today she can only work 8 hours per week til early June and was told she has to work whatever shifts she is told.
Is this bizarre why not get staff to work set shifts each week and then ask them to do extra to cover for illness/holiday cover? Seems overly complicated to me. Is this the norm in retail that you have to work whatever hours the boss says irrespective of your contract?

It sounds like a zero hour contract. Basically you have to be available for whatever hours you're given, and they're common in retail. Sorry it's so hard for her with studying and exams.

I know of someone who was contracted for 16, was expected to work 25. She was told she would need to use her holidays to cover the extra hours if she couldn't do them! Sadly I think this type of behaviour in the retail sector is becoming the norm.

Sadly this is the norm. I know someone who constantly moans about this. It's crap. I believe that benefits are often affected too, if you sometimes work more than 16 hours but no guarantee of always being asked to do so.

Yup, retail is shit and you get treated like shit. They know damn well that if you leave then they can get someone else to replace you in a heart beat.

I work in retail and do the same hours and days every week.
It seems silly to swop and change peoples hours all the time
First time I have considered being lucky in my job

I get the same hours every week in retail. But my last job was all over the place. When I was job hunting last I noticed lots of jobs for 4 to 10 hours but the required full flexibility. Seems very unfair IMO. I'd have thought it was easier for everyone I have set days and times.

Yes I had similar when I was at uni about seven years ago. I wasn't on a zero hour contract but was expected to work overtime when needed and diff days a week (though eventually did settle into more of a regular pattern.) A lot of the holidays I got stuck in my uni city due to work when everyone went home. It sucked!

My retail jobs when I was at uni (only a few years ago, but I changed between several) were all exactly like that. Yes, they are being unreasonable, but Pipbin is right, it's because the workers are considered disposable and the rights of retail staff are pretty terrible in my opinion.

Oh, and none of them were zero hour contracts, so it's not just those which are the problem.

Retail manager for a large non fashion retailer

We have a workload planner which analyses our trade patterns and suggests the most efficient use of 80% of the store hours which is what propels base hours are planned against when they are contracted, the other 20% are store allocated and we can either spend that payroll or not depending on what we know is going on locally -this flexes depending on how much money we take

I do rotas 4 weeks in advance and don't take hours off people once I've allocated but people may get asked to do extra

I've also got a record of what hours people are available and only ask them to do outside of these hours if I am desperate

I'm obviously a nice boss

Was it Lush?

I wonder if it's large companies that do most of this rubbish of unexpected extra hours & days; I imagine smaller businesses have to be more considerate to avoid hassle of repeated recruitment and short-notice no-shows.

Why is this the best business model? Can any retail managers explain?

Why is is better for staff to be unclear about what hours they are working from week to week?

I mean, I get that they can treat workers like shit, because they are expendable, but why is it in the company's best interests to do so? Surely happy staff have high morale, and do good work?

Surely it would be better for everyone to have the usual same hours, but to be requested to work extra hours to cover holidays and sickness, etc.

ds is also at University and works in retail.

The zero hours contract works really well for him and other he works with, as you can 'up' your hours when you want, and 'not be able to work' when you want. Yes, they do the rota the week before, but, as long as you let them know, that means you can say "Can I have all the hours you can give me please" (during the holidays) or "I'm not available on Thurs., Fri, Sat next week" (when you go away) and so forth.
If someone wants time off after they've been rota'd on, or, if something happens and the manager wants some extra body, then they have a Whatsapp Group and are free to swap amongst themselves, so he can often pick up extra hours in the holidays, but also get time off when he needs it. Works really well.

The problem isn't with the zero hours contract itself (it can work very well) but the way the manager(s) not using it well.

Would your dd be able to suggest a friend to work the other 8/10/12 hours so the post is covered, she's well in with her otherwise unemployed friend, and has resolved the issue for the manager?

18years too old
Can I ask if you expect staff to work different shifts each week and if so why? My daughter obviously would prefer to work weekends/evenings which perhaps oldef staff or thosecwith children at school would b
notwant to do. However she still often got put down for day shifts eg 10 - 2pm

yes, ds1 worked in asda over christmas a couple of years back, advertised as a 16 hour contract, as soon as they went for the "team" interview the manager said he needed at least 24 hours if not more out of each successful applicant and if they couldn't commit to that then to leave!

and it's similar for dd, who has a job in tesco, she's had at least 6 hours overtime a week since she started, and she's just in weekends!

Retail can be utterly shit. An understanding boss is a wonderful, sadly rare thing. Lots of contracts are zero hours, especially for students, so one week you're working when you should be at lectures and the next you have four hours' pay to feed yourself on.

Be nice to people in retail, always. I came home crying from many of my retail jobs after being spoken to like dirt, whether by a manager or far, far more often, a member of the public. When it's five minutes to closing time or worse, after closing time, fucking leave. You're probably stopping the staff from cashing up and anything else they have to do. No, your bloody blouse or that overpriced magazine for your kid is not more important than another person's time, and the extra time they don't get paid for. You left your shopping too late? Your fucking problem.

Sorry, rant over.

Backforgood
In my daughters last job she tried saying she was unavailable on certain days but was told she 'had' to work. This was at a very well known national chain by the way.

The base rota gives us minimal cover so as a base they work the same hours

One lady does Monday - Friday 10-2 and never a minute more

Others might work x hours Monday, x hours Tuesday -but do those hours every week

All part time staff are contracted to fixed hours and in their contract it says 'plus additional hours to meet the needs of the business' but in reality I can't -and wouldn't-- force them

Full time staff are contracted 5/7 so not fixed days but I try to keep them on a rolling 3 week rota so they get a full weekend off every 3 weeks and can plan around it

Personally I prefer staff on longer hour contracts as it makes training and retention easier but the powers that be say we can only offer 4, 8 or 16 hour contracts to new starters and shifts are either 4 hours (no breaks) or 9 (paid for 8 with an hour for lunch) to minimise paid breaks

I worked for a large supermarket and they did this all the time, they were supposed to rota for months in advance but never did, you usually got little notice and it was impossible to plan your week as you were never sure what you were working. It was in my contract that they could rota in up to 50% of your hours extra with no notice.
When I started a part time course I gave them months notice of the day I could not work. I then found myself down to work that day every week. I put my foot down as I'd given them notice in writing. I missed the hours, but was not offered anything to make up the time. They only changed the rota after my course finished.
My last retail job had a totally different system - you had set hours that did not change and if you wanted overtime you told the manager. It was then up to you to check the schedule. Much better system, I didn't want overtime, boy did I hate working in retail.

18years from the language you use in your posts I stronglybsuspectbwe work for the same retailer!

AgentCooper I feel your pain, have felt exactly the same way on sooooo many occasions. It never occurs to some customers that if they're nice you'd be more inclined to help!

I'm with you there Agent.
I think there should be a national service of 6 months work in retail. If everyone had to do it then they wouldn't treat people in shops so badly.

Glitter I couldn't possibly say

It would be against the social networking policy