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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask if this is how retail is?

62 replies

Fairyliz · 18/04/2015 19:01

My DD is at uni and 18 months ago got a 12 hour a week contract at a high street store. Obviously she can work more hours during the holidays but 12 is probably the maximum she can manage during term time.
Straight away her boss started putting her in for more shifts and what was even stranger was that the shifts changed from week to week. So one week she would work Mon/Weds/Sat the next would be Tues/Fri/Sun. As you only knew your shifts two weeks in advance it was very difficult to plan anything.

The final straw was when all staff received a letter from head office saying although her contract is for 12 hours she has to be available for 24 if required which is impossible with exams coming up.
So she resigned from that job and got another one for eight hours a week. She started last week and yes you've guessed it her boss has put her in for 20 hours the first week. Even worse you only learn the shifts you are doing on Friday night for the week starting Sunday. She told her boss today she can only work 8 hours per week til early June and was told she has to work whatever shifts she is told.
Is this bizarre why not get staff to work set shifts each week and then ask them to do extra to cover for illness/holiday cover? Seems overly complicated to me. Is this the norm in retail that you have to work whatever hours the boss says irrespective of your contract?

OP posts:

Glitterkitten24 · 18/04/2015 20:15

googoodolly · 18/04/2015 20:35

It's not how retail is at all. I work set hours/days and this is the same every week. If there is overtime available, I do occasionally volunteer for it but it's just voluntary. They certainly can't make me do it.

NoraNora92 · 18/04/2015 20:48

SanityClause your post reminds me of when I worked in H&M as a sales assistant and the customers (not all) were verbally abusive. There was shouting across the store, personal insults....goodness! It was such a horrible environment to be in, changed my perception. Glad I'm not a sales assistant anymore.

PeppermintCrayon · 18/04/2015 20:55

I worked in H&M for years. Set hours, nice manager, always asked if I wanted extra shifts, but the customers were indeed total utter shits.

Gem124 · 18/04/2015 21:05

I manage a small shop of a very large retailer and my staff have a contract of between 10 & 35 hours and we have a system where they choose their availability weekly, giving 4 weeks notice, can pick up extra shifts and give up shifts if they so choose. Works incredibly well and I have a cracking team :-)

Redhead11 · 18/04/2015 21:24

I have been lucky in my retail jobs and generally get my shifts a couple of weeks minimum in advance. Smaller retailers are not always better. My last job was in a very small company and they regularly broke the working time directive and knew diddly squat about almost everything else! My job description was changed without any written warning after 2 years. things that had been part of my job, i was suddenly no longer allowed to do. the customers were generally lovely (we did have a few totally mad ones) but the management couldn't manage a piss up in a brewery.

My new place is much better. If something comes up, we can try and swap with someone else. As long as the shift is covered, the manager doesn't mind. However, I am well aware that i am lucky in my position. Generally, our customers are very nice, but we do get the odd one who is horrid and the ones who start shopping 5 minutes before we close. I had one woman the other night asking why the music had gone off - when i explained we were closing in less than 5 minutes, she objected that she thought we closed too early! It was only 8pm... We also get quite a few customers in who are unable to see or hear us until they want something.

Retail isn't for the faint hearted. Oh - and as well as serving in the shop, you will almost certainly be the cleaner as well!

NeedABumChange · 18/04/2015 21:43

You and your daughter sound fussy, everything you said is standard for high street retail and for low end restaurant work. If she wants a better contract then tell her to go for luxury retail. She'll get more per hour and commission but will actually have to sell stuff.

Welshmaenad · 18/04/2015 21:46

My DH is a retail manager and operates similarly to 18hours. He has staff that have been with him years, graduates who come back to top up Xmas money long after they were student employees. It just works. I don't understand shy more retailers don't treat their staff this way, it's better for business.

Curlygirly · 18/04/2015 22:37

I always work the same 2 days each week. Some weeks they offer extra hours but it's no problem if I don't want to do extra.

engeika · 18/04/2015 23:00

I did Saturday and holiday jobs in retail from aged 13 until I was 18. Some customers were unbelievably rude and treated me like sh**. Most were lovely though.

I always treat anyone working in retail as an equal and with respect. And I know how hard it is to be on your feet all day.

I had that sort of hourly contract when working in McDonald's in 1983. Awful. I remember discovering on a Saturday that I only had four hours work a day for the following week and knowing that I wouldn't be able to pay the rent. I still remember the sickening feeling as I saw the rota.

Jackieharris · 18/04/2015 23:15

This has been the norm for at least 15 years!

When I was a student it was the same. Contract for 2 shifts a week but you'd actually work 5. Little notice. Didn't like it? No rights as short term contract so they'd give you one weeks notice and easily replace you with someone else.

How non students cope I'll never know!

PeppermintCrayon · 18/04/2015 23:19

If she's on a zero hour contact they can't legally insist she accepts the hours, surely.

AgentCooper · 18/04/2015 23:21

I'm with you there Agent.
I think there should be a national service of 6 months work in retail. If everyone had to do it then they wouldn't treat people in shops so badly

Absolutely, Pipbin, I'd love for this to happen! I just bristle when I see arseholes (who are usually deeply middle class and concerned about keeping up appearances - except in front of people who 'don't matter') acting up in shops these days.

HelenaDove · 18/04/2015 23:50

Its a ridiculous set of circumstances. How can you book something like a doctors appointment. (i wonder how many missed appointments are caused by employers fucking their employees around with no notice)

RebootYourEngine · 19/04/2015 00:03

I dont think it is zero hours if the contract says 8 hours per week. I used to work in retail but left because you are treated like shit by both managers & customers.

My contract was set days & times but closer to the end it gradually got more & more expected that i would work more than double my contract. For this you get no extra holidays or sick pay entitlement. I would not go back to retail.

maddiehayesfan · 19/04/2015 00:51

Good lord, you're acting as if the job is there for your daughter's benefit. Clue: It's the other way around. If she can't work the hours she's given, then she needs to step down and let them find someone who is capable of doing the job that's on offer. They're not running a bloody charity - since when did employees get to decide when they go to work?!

Grapejuicerocks · 19/04/2015 09:26

maddie I find that rude.

Some people have to put up with crap treatment because they need a job and have no other options.
Obviously not all retailers are the same, but this thread highlights the fact that some obviously do treat their staff badly. Because they can, doesn't make it right.

Original poster

Fairyliz · 19/04/2015 09:53

Maddie her contract states 8 hours per week but she is expected to work 20 hours with less than a weeks notice and no chance to refuse. Is this being overly fussy?
The whole point of taking a small part- time job is to only work a few hours and as I have said she is totally flexible for 20 weeks of the year during the holidays.
Do other people who work in retail sit at home not booking doctors/dentist/ hospital appointments, or not making arrangements to visit friends or go on holiday just because they might be called in for some shifts? Is she expected to miss her exams and therfore fail her degree course for a job that pays £5.50 per hour or is this how the world is nowadays?

OP posts:

Fuckup · 19/04/2015 11:45

of course the jobs for her dds benefit Maddie why the fuck would anyone work unless they wanted/needed the money? The managers not doing her a favour in giving her the job, without sales people it would be a pretty crap business. Sales people generally work very hard making other people rich, whilst being paid quite menially.

It is like this in retail now unfortunately. My dp loves his job in retail but its hard to plan anything when the shifts are all over the place from week to week. Not ideal for childcare arrangements.

SomewhereIBelong · 19/04/2015 12:09

I worked for a well known crafts store - it was lovely - but the shifts were limited - you were employed on 8, 10, 12, or 15 hour contracts. mine were 12-4 Tue, 4-8 Wed, 2-6 Sat for instance - 12 hours but on 3 different days, requiring 3 lots of transport costs, travel time etc.. just so they didn't have to pay for breaks.

You had to work a Sat or Sun shift and no leave allowed at Christmas (Oct half term til 5th Jan) or Easter.

But generally you worked the same shifts each week, they would ask if you could cover other's leave, but not compulsory - and you had to keep them up to date on general availability - I could not work Mondays for instance or before 8.30am (buses) - as they COULD change the rota and give 4 weeks notice of new hours/days if they needed to.

They were very good with students who wanted weekend/evening hours - because under 18s are cheaper to employ.

parsnipbob · 19/04/2015 13:49

I think this is fairly common for retail to be honest, shops I've worked at never seem to treat their staff well.

It's good your DD is working white at uni though, I think (know, in fact) a major reason why many new grads find themselves unable to get jobs these days is because they don't have any work experience. I worked my whole three years at uni (15 hours a week in 1st and 2nd year, 20-25 in third) and full time during the holidays. I am so glad I did as it has really helped me find decent employment post-uni.

Original poster

Fairyliz · 19/04/2015 19:18

parsnip
Thats good to know. It also helps with the money situation, she is doing a course where she has to buy a lot of materials and wecan't afford to fund it all. I am proud of her that she is trying to earn but don't wNt her studies to suffer.

OP posts:

maroonedwithfour · 19/04/2015 19:21

I workd for T supermarket last year. I had a 14 hour contract and more hours if I wished, was never pressurised or just put down for them.

TracyBarlow · 19/04/2015 20:49

If she has an 8 hour contract then she can't legally be forced to work more than 8 hours.

The reason they have only given her an 8 hour contract when their requirements are for more hours is because they only have to give her 8 hours worth of holiday pay and if thing are quiet they only need to give her 8 hours of work. Meanwhile, if she needs more work, they are under no obligation to give it to her. It stinks.

This type of contract is usually weighted heavily in favour of the employer. It only works well for the employee when the employer doesn't start placing undue (and illegal pressure) on their workers to do more hours.

alltoomuchrightnow · 19/04/2015 20:50

absolutely the norm in my last job (manager at a Scope charity shop). I always knew that days would be different every week, which I had no problem with , but it ended up changing from day to day. Like i'd get home and have a phone call asking me to cover a different store on my so called day off etc. In the end I ended up working 6 days a week, but for a long period, 7 days a week (it was in my contract.. if cover was needed, you did it). As for doctor's appointments, you couldn't have one in work time, not allowed. I ended up finding a doctor who did evenings (this was London, so there were doctors who did)

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