its not democracy if snp and greens get the same votes but only 1green mp but 40 snp mps

[ljwales]

Just heard someone say this on the radio, I don't doubt it.

How can this be democracy? They must change to PR now we are not two party system.

We had a referendum on changing the voting system early on in the current parliament (one of the Lib Dem policies). It got rejected - that's democracy.

TeenAndTween did we, fucking hell that passed me by, I must have been living under a rock! I think first past the post is deeply unfair though.

The FPTP system has worked against the snp for 80+ years!

But yes I prefer pr for this reason.

I like the part FPTP part pr system we have in the Scottish parliament.

We had a vote on a stupid voting system that no one used! Not a vote for pr!

I agree with you - it's a massively unfair system. Quite why the majority (of the 40-odd percent turnout) voted against it is a mystery to me, but yep - that's democracy as we know it.

First past the post benefits the larger parties and as such they are likely to resist change. Personally think it's extremely unfair system ensuring many peoples views are not represented.

Well now its working in favour of the SNP. Tbh for most of the 80 years the SNP have been bullies and deaply unelectable, although they have changed a lot these days.

We had a vote for av not pr.

Most people out there don't even understand the voting system or know what we use.

OTOH, FPTP tends to lead to stable governments with fewer coalitions, and you tend not to get tiny minority parties holding the balance of power where their views get disproportionately listened to. This might happen this time where a small party might end up deciding who makes the next government.

This coalition has been remarkably stable - but look at some other countries to see what can happen.

Loads of countries have stable coalitions, Germany has been doing very well with their s. They round off the edges of a party.

I agree, they should never have gotten rid of the rotten boroughs. The Tories and the Whigs used to know a thing or two about rigging an election. It's a shambles nowadays.

OP I agree with you. Hopefully the horror of the SNP having a controlling vote in WM means that this time there will be some genuine desire for change of the voting system.

We won't know if the snp will benefit from FPTP until may 8th.

FPTP by it's nature depends on % share in each constituency not overall polls.

The majorities the snp has to overturn in most of the Scottish seats is enormous (think of the Portillo moment in 1997 40x over).

Imo it will all be down to turnout in the end.

As for all the snp-bashing, what's with all the hate? If we are a united nation don't all areas have a right to influence the national agenda?

I think it's pretty certain that the SNP will do very well - the indy movement (which at 45% in the referendum is reflected in the current election polls) is still pretty unhappy that things went against them, so they'll be voting en masse for the SNP. The rest of Scotland (ie the majority) will be split between the other parties - with their votes not represented fully in the FPTP system.

Yup, the latest poll is another shocker...

Scottish voting intentions for the May 2015 UK general election (TNS, 18th March - 8th April) :

SNP 52% (+6)
Labour 24% (-6)
Conservatives 13% (-1)
Liberal Democrats 6% (+3)
Greens 3% (-1)

so why is it not okay for the snp to have influence in wm, but it is okay to have tory govt which has just one seat in Scotland?

I think it's a massive shame that the Lib Dems didn't manage to get a better PR system on offer in the referendum (though I voted for all the same).

You can have mixed systems that give perfectly stable governments - the Welsh govt is elected with 40 constituency AMs voted first past the post, and 20 more elected on a list system proportionally. I think it's a good compromise.

Agree Saoirse.

Fine - when did that poll come in?

so why is it not okay for the snp to have influence in wm

Lots of excellent reasons here

The pr/av referrendum was a disaster. BUT it was a disaster because of the labour and conservative parties. So neither of them can complain for one second if FPTP now no longer suits them.
I think snp would support some version of pr. Greens do, lib dems do. But most folk vote and listen to Lab or Cons.

Fine - when did that poll come in?

Today.

I saw ones on Sky news earlier today putting the SNP around 46/47%

Polls are pointless unless they are constituency by constituency.

Eg the Tories will only get 1 seat even though they poll over 10%.

Imo the media is setting the scene to make the snp look like failures. Them getting 12 seats would be amazing. 20 astounding. But the way the media are spinning it people will think they've failed if they get less than 30 seats.

Look at where these seats are. Look at who the sitting MPs are- lots of big names UK wide.

I saw ones on Sky news earlier today putting the SNP around 46/47%

That may have been the YouGov one that had SNP at only 49%?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election (Scottish polls are towards bottom)

I haven't seen any evidence of the media setting up the SNP - it's all been about the SNP storming to power at the expense of Labour who are struggling massively in Scotland, according to all the news reports I've seen across the channels. The polls are backing this up - and reflecting the vote in the referendum, ie no major surprises in the voting as far as I can see.