to distance sons from DN for a bit..

[FujimotosElixir]

This isn't an easy post and i feel like a cow so please be gentle. Im trying to be vague to so ask if theres something you dont understand , have 2 sons one is nearly 6 and one 2 ..DN is in the middle at 3, just. Shes quite high maintenence and often has relentless crying episodes if youngest ds picks up her toys and sits in her chair , refuses to share but demands ds 2 shares. Winds him up i.e clicks off videos on when hes using Tablet but cries if he tries to 'pinch' hers, has sworn at him in the past (dickhead) but only once tbf, and when ds 2 gets sick of it and gives her a good wallop its him who gets into trouble, which bugs me As much as i dont want him to do it. From things i have seen i have suspected for a while that she is pandered to a degree and that MIL.treats DN differently to both DS' s. They went for a few hours yesterday, my eldest told me that DN brought a new toy round refused to share it and was crying so hysterically when ds2 picked it up MIL was taking it off him to give back to DN instead of telling her to share or play with something else. he said "DN never shares and DGM doesn't tell her off" ... pretty damning when an asd 5 year old sees it so clearly. Today my youngest ds was looking at pictures of DN on my phone made a crying gesture with his hands and frowned....to clarify my issue is that the behaviour issues arent dealt with i know toddlers are toerags at the best times. I suddenly feel very guilty that ive been sending them and theyve not been having a great time. btw BIL and MIL live very close together so in this case DN is usually always there. What do i do that doesn't make me look awful? .

Yanbu - I would have an issue with your DN niece behaviour but not necessarily with DN because at 3 she's not really to blame even though it's hard to separate feelings of resentment from the individual causing the hurt to your child.I would have a big issue with the adults not tackling it though, as they are to blame for not dealing with it appropriately.

I have been in your shoes with Dnephew but it did involve a lot of violence to the point we just stopped visiting because it was exhausting making sure Ds didn't get hurt and later on when they were older not setting a good example to Ds of what's acceptable. It was confusing for him to see someone he loved (dmil) not treating him fairly or chastising Dnephew on things he knew were wrong like sharing and hitting.

You could mention it to the adults involved but they probably know but just don't want to deal with it so would it achieve anything other than them looking for some to blame? (no-one likes to be told their parenting is shit ) and you'd end up the bad guy.
I'd have some distance for a bit for your sanity and for your Ds' Otherwise they might get mixed messages re: what's okay behaviour.

I did read the op thank you otherwise I wouldn't have commented
Have you spoken to your mil about this? Or just taken the word of your d's? I'm still quite that you're ok with your d's hitting when he doesn't get his own way. 3 year olds often cry and find it hard to share. I'm not reading that she's done anything so terrible yet.

I literally said that i dont like him doing it getoutofbed

You said it bugs you that he gets in trouble for hitting her

I said "its bugs me as much as i don't want him to do it", hes is 2, younger than her, who she has provoked for hours on end with no intervention you can't expect a 2 year old to ignore that level of provocation.

She is 'just' 3. You can't expect a child that age to understand provocation.

I have yet to meet a 2 year old who puts up with hours of provocation from a three year old before finally snapping. Toddlers usually put up with 1 second of provocation, if that.

Your husband needs to have a frank, detailed and ongoing talk with his mum and his brother.

Well good for you claraschu doesn't mean they don't exist, getoutofbed i disagree if a 3 year old can be toilet trained they can be made to understand that nasty behaviour upsets people. Or else how do they learn? Ive said several times the issue is the adults, but sadly in those environments even very young children can pick up bad habits of behaviour and its sad but sometimes you Have to think ..for now i dont want mine exposed and the double standards involved. ,

There's a massive difference between physical learning eg toilet training and mental learning eg sharing. Babies learn to eat at roughly 6 months, would you expect them to share too?
You asked'AIBU' and we're giving our opinion. If you don't like it, don't ask.

One child might be able to "learn" at this age - that doesn't mean all children of this age can learn.

I know children a lot lot older than 3 who don't understand what "nasty behaviour" is; that "actions have consequences", "that they can upset other people" and a lot more of the basic psychological processes behind your expectations. Toilet training has no relation to these concepts, and plenty of 3 year olds struggle with this.

You also cannot know that at 3 she definitely doesn't have an SN - lots of children are diagnosed far later than this. 3 used to be the youngest age they would firmly diagnose ASD.

its very very extreme and my ds wasn't treat with such leniency, i don't see some of the posters issues here ive said its mil especially practising favouritism which can be to blame for some of the more difficult behaviour? Whats wrong with that? I dont believe personally that she has 0 idea what she is doing because i personally know this child and have seen incidents first hand, that still doesn't mean adults arent to blame, on a thread where i spoke about the sensitive matter of double standards its become about 'but your DN....' yet another space where its all about DN and my 2 year old seemingly doesn't matter

Your 2 year old matters! In fact I have profound sympathy with all the children here. I think you should keep your children away.

But I think you are part of the problem.

Your son has ASD?

She may have genetic traits. I'd tread carefully.

I've been there and it does grate on you after a while particularly when your children start noticing and think that the grandparents love the other child more because they get their own way all the time. 3 year olds do need poor behaviour to be challenged but sadly some people think that they are too young to be reprimanded and the child continues to behave badly because they learn that poor behaviour means they get their own way all time.

When my children moaned about the unfairness and behaviour from their cousin I explained that she was spoiled and the adults were giving in because it was easier for them to give in then deal with the tantrum. My children accepted this explanation.

We are a few years on now and dn is 8, things still haven't really changed!

Toilet training is a physical thing and a habit. My DD is toilet trained but her understanding is not great.

Why am i part of the problem? humanjam ...i thought i was the only one for a minute.

You are not the only one Fuji. I think it's pretty common amongst extended families.

My DS tells me that various other children don't share. This means that they don't give him the toy when he wants it - so I wouldn't take this as gospel.
Also DS is an only child and when he spends time with his cousins he finds it harder to share/give up his special chair etc than they do - especially when its in his own place - your DN is probably the same - luckily my sisters are understanding and he is learning to share etc.

She's probably not behaving entirely out of the range of normal for a 3yo tbh. However, you say have a break until she grows out of it. Here's the problem...... She'll never grow out of it with DS' if her behaviour gets what she wants around them.

What she needs are clear boundaries that are followed through by ALL adults in her life in all settings.

Therefore I agree with the DH having a conversation with his mum and brother approach. Say that your boys are happy there with ther cousin and by cousin always being the innocent party she's getting the message poor behaviour is acceptable and gets her what she wants and the boys are getting the message their feelings don't count and they aren't as important. Ask them if they want their grandchildren, nieces and nephews to grow up with that resentment?

If your DS has ASD, surely it's possible that your niece has SN too? Surely you appreciate that often that means that standard parenting practices are completely ineffective? So to others you may look like you can't be bothered, when actually you just don't bother with what doesn't work? Like time outs

I think perhaps another person's approach just being honest with especially older ds about the situation may be actually better, i suppose it credits him with more intelligence also. I suppose ASD could be a possibility , id be very surprised if that's the case as i dont see any consequences/rewards/conversations had about her very brattish behaviour , its not really acknowledged so its a bit of a nonstarter.

Even if it is asd, and I have a DS with asd, that's not a reason to let her behaviour affect others negatively. Children with asd need a different approach (as your aware!) but they still need an approach.

One thing that worked for DS at that age, if you want to suggest something positive into conversation, was having 'share toy box' and 'DS toy box'. DS toy box was stuff he was extremely asd over and didn't come out when other children were there. Share toy box was things DS wasn't particulary bothered about, but had things he'd enjoy and it was to be shared. He's HF and rule based so could understand this but needed very consistent parenting to get it stuck. He had cars in there - and if he had a car he needed to make sure everyone else had a car too. (If they wanted one!) I, in return, made sure when other children moved his car (a sure fire way to piss him right off!) they were told that was the one DS was playing with and they could chose from the others. I also had to be DS voice to explain this as his social language is his biggest delay.

Perhaps it would be helpful for PIl to have 3 collapsible camping chairs. One for each child. Make it clear who's chair it is so everyone has a fair chance from the off. And the 'rules' are you use your own chair. And everyone is made to stick to it even if they will tantrum.

I think people don't share. I don't tend to "share" my ipod. I think sharing is often over rated. Fine if playing a communal game but for single user toys then I think the person whose toy it is has priority especially if other kids are different ages so may break it.
If tablets cause hassle I'd be more inclined to ban tablets when they are together or only let them have them if they both have one.
If DN had a new toy why should she share it? She's only just got it and your youngest is a year younger so it may not be suitable for him anyway. Ensure he has stuff of his own to play with.
I do think this is a little kid issue. No-one would expect my teenagers to "share" their laptops with younger kids and I'd just get them to turn them off or go into a room away from little kids if their laptops or toys caused problems.
I'd have a word with the supervising adults about the behaviours but if you aren't happy then stop sending your kids round there or if they do go ensure you are supervising them.
If they are minding your kids for free then they are in charge. If you don't like the way they "parent" them in your absence then keep them with you or let other adults look after them.

2rebecca if my ds sits in a chair she screams cries etc saying its her he needs to get out is that ok as well? I.said in my op if she didn't want to share it she should have left it next door/home