to be considering cancelling holiday to Spain after Easter behaviour

[thinkingmakesitso]

Dc are 8 and 5 and I split with their father last year after discovering his infidelity. It has obviously been a tough year but he is still very involved in their lives and I suppose things are good now, perhaps even better than could have been expected this time last year.

We had not been abroad since youngest child was a baby, so after receiving a monetary gift from my parents at Christmas I booked for me and the dc to go to Spain in the summer. Having just come back from a short break to see family this Easter (we stayed in a hotel) I am absolutely dreading it and seriously considering not going. It is the unrelentingness (not a word, sorry) of it that gets me. We will be in an apartment, and a small one, so no outside space for ds to go out in (he loves sport) and we will be in a city, not a resort, so the onus will be on me at all times to to entertain with little scope for them to entertain themselves or just 'be'.

Written down that all sounds so much worse than I even thought and I feel like I have made a huge mistake. To add to that the dc are just so silly and I am not really enjoying them much at the moment . It's the silly noises, repeating things I say in a silly voice, constant, and I mean constant, references to poo, bums and wee, awful table manners despite having eaten at the table as a family all their lives, ds2's increasing fussiness with food, ds1 constantly shrieking anytime anything not on his agenda is suggested...I could go on... I have just read the thread on Chat about the 8/9 yr olds playing and it has made me feel shit because they NEVER do anything like that - ds1 is all sport and seems to have no imagination despite getting awards for creative writing at school and ds2 is obsessed with Rainbow Fairies ad spends hours lining up his books and then watching Youtube videos of other children lining up their books - the only time they play together is to shout and shriek about poo and wee - makes me feel like a complete failure. Both are perfect at school btw.

My response seems to be to shout at them and even, today, pull them too roughly and it makes me feel shit and coping with it in a foreign country on my own for a week seems like madness. I don't really have rl support anyway, but won't even have my own space, laptop etc

We went in a greengrocers today and it was beyond me to cope with them - over-loud voices, being silly when putting stuff in the bags, trying to grab stuff- they are not toddlers but I feel like I coped better when they were and now I have just lost my way with them.

To my shame I even told them today that they would not be going to Spain if they carried on, and I know it is wrong to threaten them like that, and nothing they did was really THAT bad - it is more my inability to cope that is the problem.

Sorry for the rant, but AIBU to thing going abroad with them in these circumstances is a really bad idea?

All else fails just go each day to nearest park with a ball/frisbee after coffee/nice breakfast? They can let off steam

After I had went through a traumatic time I really struggled with my children. Looking back I realise I felt overwhelmed by life because I felt sad and a bit kicked about by what I'd been through. I felt like the enjoyment had gone out of parenting and the challenge to get through each day was too tough.

When my depression lifted, everything improved and I went back to enjoying it again.

You've been through a rough time which is quite likely to have affected you and is perhaps causing you to feel less able to cope. Would it be worth getting counselling? I didn't think I was depressed during that time but in hindsight, I probably was.

Definitely don't cancel! Valencia will be awesome, it could really help cement you all back as a little new family unit. I imagine they are feeling some stress from this year too. They need time with you away from the daily grind. Bring some things that will be able to anchor them to home (favourite toys, books) and encourage them to do something different. I think you'll be fine.

YANBU but I think you need to reflect on what you want to do. It sounds like you want to go? If so, do, but reflect on what would make it work. There are some good ideas here but pick and choose which suit you. Eg no gadgets at meals - not sure I agree - if it gets you through a decent time, if they eat chips watching their phone or tablet every night does it really matter?

But if you just think you should go (waste of money not to, etc) think again. Maybe don't.

You sound like a great mum. You also sound like you need a break. Could you get some time to yourself, sooner? Very soon? Eg get your ex to have them for a whole weekend? For a breather, to regroup.

The books about how they kids are reflecting back your stress etc are all well and good, it's hard to change your mindset and response with no space to recharge.

I'm a big fan of the Ahaparenting site and the book it's founder wrote (Peaceful parent, Happy kids).

If you do decide to go, could you get some help - either a friend to go with you, or maybe find someone there? Eg a student that wants to work in his English. Not that you'd ever leave them with him, but they might be wowed by a young but older presence and it would help you out. A good friend of mine is a single parent, she lives abroad, and she found a 17 year old neighbour to help her out when she was back visitng her parents last summer. Old enough to be responsible, young enough to still play? If you research it, post somewhere like gumtree, it might work. I've interviewed au pairs still in their home country over Skype before, this would be a reverse of that?

Good luck and go easy on yourself it sounds like you are doing great under tough circumstances.

Go and have a good time!
Spain is v child friendly. Go out all day to the beach, water parks, museums... Spain also has lots of child friendly food so your fussy eater will be fine.
for you.

i think itll be ok. Prep them. Do child oriented stuff. Spend a lot of time on the beach. Avoid shops, and when you have to use them, brace yourself and pep talk the kids. Also lower your standards

Go! All kids get daft and silly. This is not a reflection on you: if it was, they would be naughty at school.

Admit it they are just irritating, annoying but ultimately ordinary and loveable kids? (I'm not minimising just how annoying they are, by the way, just that it's easy to lose perspective when you never get a break from it. Dispassionately, mine are funny and charming. Relentlessly, they drive me mad.)

Oh and do not worry about empty threats, I threatened DS with being locked out indefinitely today the crime was waking me up when he slammed the door by mistake. Slight over-reaction! He ignored me

I wouldn't cancel but I adore holidays and even though I sometimes worry about all the things you've listed, I've never had a horrendous holiday yet. I find once I am away, I start to relax and then can cope better with any silliness.

I also find apartments much easier to manage than a hotel because you can have your own space at night. I notice you said you won't have your laptop to distract you. Is there no wi-fi? A lot of apartments do have it so I'd check and take your laptop with you.

I think the PP's idea about buying a kids' city guide is a good one. You could get them to start thinking about what they'd like to do and then plan ahead. it also means if you feel like threatening them with losing the holiday again you could just threaten losing one activity rather than the whole break

Have some and tonight, then start to think about the parts of the holiday you will enjoy - like the sunshine . . .

Just go OP. It'll be fine with a bit of advanced planning re fun activities for DCs.

keep the flights

change the accommodation.

I think you need a place where your DC can go outside by themselves whenever they like. It doesn't really matter what kind of place it is - campsite, villa, apartment. You need a holiday where you do not have to be marshalling and monitoring all the time.

you need not to be worrying about, or responding to, or controlling their behaviour, for most of the time.

so you must pick somewhere to stay that allows for this.

"Talking to them" about your expectations won't work - the poo/wee silliness is too powerful, and they won't be able to stop being silly, then they will feel sad and upset, and angry because they couldn't do it and they let you down.

You really have to set up a context where they can be silly, but you won't care. That's the key thing. And the best place for silliness is outside.

how about here?

Can you change the accomodation to somewhere with a kids club?

A few half-days here & there when you get a break, they get to do new activities with different kids ( maybe pick up a few words of Spanish)
Then when you are all together you'll get on much better
Or at least that's my experience of those ages

I said to my DH today that parenting is a complete dichotomy- you spend most of the time being annoyed to the point of feeling murderous...

But you want to stab violently anyone who means them harm!

They sound like completely normal silly little boys. It will pass

However you need to accept that holidays till they are older will be focussed on their needs alone which means a pool and somewhere to kick a football. I agree with PPmthat if you can change the accommodation that would be a better idea

I agree with others, change the accommodation. You need somewhere with space to run around with other kids that they meet, a pool and a kids' club. They don't have to go all the time but a few sessions would give you a break. You can still do some visits to interesting sites in the morning then go back and chill and let the children run around.

Also a big threat like cancelling a holiday won't change their behaviour. The holiday is too far off for them to equate the two things and they won't be able to stay 'good' for that length of time. I'm a single parent and I never punish with things that would only be a punishment for me and ds wouldn't really be bothered.

I would go, see if a friend could also go, plan days but dont over plan allow for siestas, Spanish play parks are great, eat earlier in the evening, they are very welcoming of DC, I agree colouring books, non competition type games for the dinner wait, and a trunki/ bag for each of them for the travel with snacks and toys if you are flying early dress them in play clothes and plan a trip ie the park or beach straight away unpack in the evening. And pack a backpack for each of them foe when out and about making them responsible for stuff picnic bits etc is good for them and an unusual but the same tshirt for both ofbthem for play parks so they are easy to spot.
We usually plan something for morning or afternoon but leave the other part of the day free for parks or beach. Dont over simulate them a holiday is about being lazy and spending time together.
I provide all my DC with cheapo cameras as well taking pics a huge distraction and I usualky have my laptop with a few new films down loaded if it alk gets too much. Also picnics and breakfast are cheaper and stress free so buy plastic or paper plates and cups
And have fun

I definitely wouldn't cancel but another adult to help sounds like a good idea. My two are 11 and 8 and I find that self catering works best as it gives us more space - they bounce off the walls a bit otherwise. The trick is to be off out early in the morning and exhaust them so they are subdued when you get home.
Is there a DVD player in the apartment? Could you take a portable one or tablets so they can watch things on iplayer in downtime?
Also, could your reactions to their behaviour be fuelling it a bit? I had a very difficult summer last year with my oldest and was not handling it well at all and we were locked in a bit of a spiral. I was suffering from mild depression which I have now addressed and we have a much better relationship now.
I hope you all have a wonderful holiday - it could be a lovely chance to really restore your relationship.

I'm sorry and I might be jumping to conclusions but it sounds as if DS2 has very OCD like behaviour so I think maybe staying in a foreign place might make him really upset and mess up his routine? But I think you do need a holiday so prepare for the circumstances! Maybe book somewhere move extravagant like Disneyland Paris? That way they can be excited and you will be very busy so no time for silliness and the restraunts have very basic kids menus and I think this will be a lot more enjoyable!

Valencia's great! Spend all morning in the river bed haring around, all afternoon sleeping and all evening eating bits and pieces in tapas bars and playing in play parks!!

Oh OP I was in your situation last year with almost 3yr old DD, I'd split up with her dad the previous year and it upset me to think we should miss out on "family" holidays just because it was the two of us.

There were times leading up to it that I thought I'd made the biggest mistake ever and couldn't imagine getting through the week. I'll never forget arriving at the airport with DD in one hand, huge suitcase and folded buggy in the other, looking at the big queue of "proper families" at the check it and everyone commenting how brave I was!
We had the best time and it gave me such confidence in myself that I don't think I ever could have gotten at home (he had been a SAHD)

Have a brilliant time OP!!

Where in Spain are you flying to? Can You keep the flights and change town to a resort? You say your son is not into beaches but resorts tend to have more family orientated stuff going on.
Many Spanish beaches have sports and nets for games on their beaches which are free to use. We often make use on an evening when it is cooler.
I wonder if a hotel with a kids club may make life easier too. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but may help you to get a bit of downtime too.
Thomson used to have football school at some of their hotels/accommodation complexes - not sure if they still do. You can book just the accommodation on the Thomson website and its not just hotels but apartments too,so you don't have to go half board Tec unless you want to.

I think you need to research alternative resorts/places to stay using your current flights.

I have holidays on my own with kids and I have to be honest and say up to a certain age life is easier when you go somewhere more suited to their wants and needs to yours. The older they get the more flexible they can be doing more grown up cultural stuff that appeal more to us adults. I don't mean do 100% what your kids want and be dragged bored behind them but find a happy medium because if your kids are happy -you will have a much easier time.

Good luck. I am sure with a bit of research you can make this work.

Dont cancel your holiday you will lose money could you take another adult with you for support and company, it sounds tough at the moment they are pushing you to see how far you will go i think you needto take a step back calm down and re set your boundries the family has changed and they might be reacting to that, if they cant eat at the dinner table send them away if they say bum a million times a day ignore it most young kids go through that.and shouting in shops take them out its easy for me to sa5 do this or that but you sound so harassed and they might be feeding of that and to be frank taking the piss.

We are also going to Valencia this summer. Get theminvolvedsave up to go to the aquarium let them choose some other things and let it wash over you. Don't not go, it might be great. If not you can drink cava and eat olives in the evening. Eat on the beach or have takeaway in the roomif restaurants are too hard.

I am on my own with two dc and have been researching holidays and would love to take them abroad. However I wouldn't do the type of holiday you describe with my dc but mine seem needier than yours and they are definitely not perfect at school!

I think all mine can cope with is a holiday park with kids' activities all day long then crash out in the evenings which is not my idea of fun but they love it. I would also be worried about the travelling and queuing/waiting around as my two could never cope with that. As for the wee and poo jokes, we have the deliberate farting and belching followed by hysterical laughter.

Only you know if you are up for it.

I'd go, it could be just what you all need. Sorry not sure if you've mentioned it but if you're going self catering, I'd do a picnic every day for the beach, beach ball, buckets and spades and towels, and a good book for you, sorted.
Hopefully by night time the kids will be nicely chilled out and let you enjoy a glass or two of wine in peace.