completely spiteful auntie

[bigfam]

I've posted about her before, she's my other half's little sister, but this time I'm completely shocked at her behaviour.

She comes round to play with our kids quite often, and whilst round the other day my 6 year olds tablet got smashed, the story is;
They were sat on the stairs and auntie 'double dared' my dd1 to kick dd2 (who's 3) down the stairs while she was holding the tablet, dd1 refused and said that auntie then kicked HER and she accidently knocked dd2. My 6 year old just wouldn't lie but on top of that dd2 also told me 'auntie kicked me down the stairs ' and she definitely wouldn't lie either, basically because she doesn't understand a lie, iyswim.
Anyway when I asked what happened auntie went on the defensive, stomping round and wouldn't talk so I left her alone.
When mil came to get her I told her what had happened but she was more concerned with her dd being upset, and when she came round today (mil) with her dd she had the balls to be sarky and say '_ don't go near anything electrical for goods sake'
Its not just the fact my 6 yo's tablet is broken, that actually pales in comparison to the fact that my kids auntie deliberately tried to push/get pushed a 3 yo old down the stairs!
Sorry for the rant, I'm just still furious.

I don't want her round anymore, is that unreasonable?

Dear god - why are you all demonising this 11 year old child - suggestions to take her to the GP, violent behaviour and now criminal acts and the police involved. No one knows what happened and whether the girl was making a bad joke to the LOs who might have taken her seriously, or got things mixed up..........who knows. Well all of you seem to know - must be mind readers.

Do any of you have 11 year old children yourselves. Would you not want to defend them - we don't stop wanting to protect our children when they reach 11. I still think much of this is because she is MIL's daughter.

And is it a good idea to let an 11 year old be unsupervised with young children, especially playing on the stairs. Just a thought. I'm not saying anything is "your fault" OP - just trying to show a different perspective and I think these posts are getting totally OTT re the 11 year old.

Didn't you already post about this

There seems to be an over emphasis on her being the children's aunt. At the end of the day she's an 11 year old the fact she's biologically their aunt doesn't give her a sudden maturity.

Some horrifically bad behaviour from an 11yo child here. I'm sorry, but I've not read any of your previous posts about her.

Your poor DD's.

Is there an option of having an open and frank discussion with MIL where you in no uncertain terms say:

1. It's important that the children maintain some type of relationship. At least I think so. Aunts/nieces with such a close age range can grow to be very close as they get older. It's a shame to put a complete stop to this.

1. The are obviously some issues.

1. Until those issues are resolved, when 11yo DSil comes over to visit, she stays in the living room with the adults rather than upstairs with your DD's. This shouldn't be negotiable.

Demonising the child's bad behaviour, and banishing her from your family will just force MIL to 'circle the wagons' around her DD (and rightly so, we'd all do the same for our own DC's).

Is there an option of trying to mend the relationship? The kid probably thinks/knows you dislike her, and is maybe jealous of your DD's, and is maybe on some hormonal power trip (I'm in charge, I'm the auntie!). You may very well face a similar challenge in a few years between your own DD's, when you've got one 'grown up' and 'in charge' pre teen exerting her 'authority' over her sister and pushing boundaries.

I'm not excusing this bad behaviour, she has been a manipulative and naughty (possibly jealousy and with raging hormones) pre-teen. That needs to be dealt with. BUT, she is still a kid. She could mature into the fiercest protector and friend of one (or both) of your DD's.

Yes I posted it on what would you do, I was also asked had she exerted such horrible behaviour before-whilst in school recently she's been in a lot of trouble for writing a letter to another girl telling her she "was going to kill her and bury her body where no-one can find it"
Nobody's ddemonising, but at the age of 11 children know the difference between being silly, having little arguments and trying to hurt a little girl, I've already said they were sat on the stairs, and as for knowing if that's what actually occurred my 6 year old had never used the words 'double dare'

I woul not be babysitting for her any more. Has the 11 year old even apologised? Does MIL know (and believe) the full facts of what happened?

No apology. I told mil what happened when she came to pick her up, but because she was angry and wanted to go, mil took her and left.

She sounds like a charmer (they both do). No more babysitting until the child acquires some manners/discipline/sense of responsibility, and MIL starts instilling it. At least you & DH seem to be on the same page with this!

I am 10 years older than my sister. My son is 10 years older than his sister. I currently childmind children aged between 12 and 7 months.

This is not normal behaviour from an 11 year old. I would be seriously concerned by any 11 year old who did this.

I would give immediate notice to an older child who deliberately tried to harm a younger one. I have only ever had to do that once in all my years of childminding - the child did have serious issues at home and was also given immediate notice from another childminder.

This girl may well have issues - I don't know enough to say, only that her behaviour is very worrying. However, the Op's first and most important responsibility is towards her young children and, if ensuring their safety means refusing to have DN round, that's what needs to be done.

For an 11 year old to be writing about burying a child is not only sick and abnormal, it's very worrying and I would double stress for you never to leave your kids in a room alone with her.

New house rule -when Auntie comes to play, they all play downstairs in sight and earshot of the grown ups.
I enforced a "no playing upstairs/ in another room" rule with a friend's child who was forever hurting my DC and breaking toys. My DC were happy enough to go along with this and noone was upset. (Friend understood why but chose to believe I was being precious which was fine by me!)

i would make them all stay within earshor.you dont know what really happened.a valuable item was broken and your dd might not necessarily be telling the truth

I don't see any demonising on here tbh? It is absolutely mil's duty to protect her dd, in the same way it is the OP's duty to protect her own DDs. It would be nice to maintain a decent relationship with mil & auntie, but why on earth should the op baby sit for her? I wouldn't. If that means a less decent relationship with mil and auntie, that is very sad, but it would be the lesser of two "evils" imho (not calling auntie evil, before anyone accuses me of demonising - that is just an expression).

I don't hear much demonising here tbh. My son has diagnosed emotional & behavioural issues, a statement of SEN, extensive professional involvement etc. He can, in a rage, be violent, certainly. And I can, admittedly, be defensive. But he wouldn't do this, I can say with absolute certainty & I would say this and the school thing really does warrant some investigation. Myself, I think the 11 year old still comes if MIL/FIL comes too & supervises. No babysitting.

I don't see any demonising either - just frank opinions on the behaviour of an 11 year old who tries to get a 6 year old to deliberately hurt a younger child.

There is no way that is anything other than deliberately nasty behaviour. OPs first concern has to be the welfare of her children.

It's worrying that MIL is so dismissive of the very valid concerns over her DDs behaviour, trying to focus on the damage to the tablet rather than the calculated actions of her child. Until she acknowledges that her DD is exhibiting some worrying behaviours and tries to help her to overcome them, then the best thing to do is as OP wishes, which is not to let her into the house until she acknowledges her previous behaviour and the possible consequences. At 11 she will be in High School soon, so isn't a small child who doesn't understand what she was doing. MIL brushing away any concerns is worrying as it suggests she is in total denial.

from the behaviour of the girl I would not be surprised to learn that she is also showing similar traits in other areas of her life, e.g. school and perhaps there are already concerns and possibly even strategies in place there to help her?

I think it's especially frustrating that your MIL is saying you hate her. You don't. You have reasonable boundaries about what behaviour you will tolerate in your own home towards your own children.

Is it possible that the girl is jealous of your dds as she's no longer your dh's favourite little girl? I might suggest encouraging her to look after the younger 2 girls as she is the auntie and give a new emphasis in that direction

That would may work Holden10 if this child wasn't already threatening violence to child out side the family.

I don't think the auntie is necessary bad, but her behaviour needs to be looked at and not excused as in 'she is only 11' or 'she didn't mean it'. Are her parents still going to using that as excuse in 10 yrs when she is doing real harm to another innocent person. The parents need to sort this behaviour now.

There's a lot of mind readers around again Peppermint how on earth do you know how the OP feels towards her MIL...........and can I point out that we only have the OP's version of what happened and she wasn't there at the time of the incident, so if she knew the girl was not to be trusted why did she leave her children with her..........and the LOs might well be mixed up or have got things wrong. I can't believe the vitriol that has been heaped on this 11 year old child - I feel sorry for her - she must know she is not liked and is probably jealous of the LOs. Surely she can play with them in sight of the parents, drawing or playing board games or something similar.

And now Clutterbug is fast forwarding the tape 10 years when she is doing real harm to another person - crystal balls in use? And she is threatening violence to another child outside of the family - er, this is an allegation made by the OP - and how did she find out about this note that she wrote. Kids write all sorts of things - it doesn't mean they are "threatening violence" and we only have the OP's version. My guess is that there is another side to this matter.

I wonder how the OP would feel if this was her young sister and her mom and her DH said she wasn't allowed to visit the house again, nor her mom unless she could keep the girl under control.

I can't believe that so many posters don't think this girl is being demonised - all because of an incident where none of us really know what happened. It's been mentioned she should be taken to the GP about her behaviour - she's of the age of criminal responsibility, so the police could be called - and now we're moving on 10 years and a categoric statement made about what she will be doing - incredible!

Nina, your latest post is bizarre! Why on earth would the Op make up allegations and lie about what happened?

She is under no obligation to have her SIL in her house and it sounds as though her DH is in agreement with her. They know the SIL best.

Nina, I've known her for 10 years, since she was one. I've babysat her more times then I can count and I know when she is lying, I've seen her nearly every day of every week of those 10 years! I know about the note because she goes to the same school as my 6 year old, and her mum (mil) showed me the note after it had been handed in to the head teacher. I was 'here' it happened in my house, they were sat on the stairs. As for not liking her- I've treated her like she IS my own sister! And regardless of whether she's jealous or not she SHOULD NOT push / encourage people to push a toddler down the stairs. I don't want her here again, because however much myself and my other half tell her what she did was wrong, her mum is completely flippant about the whole thing so she won't learn.

I think there is a two-fold issue here: the clearly unacceptable behaviour of this girl (not far off going to secondary school, so a "tween", not a little child) and her mother's attitude towards it, which seems to be head in the sand time.

there may be behavioural difficulties that the school is concerned about, and MIL is in denial. But that does mean she has the right to insist her DD can do whatever she wants in your house and around your (younger) children.

Can you and DH agree a plan of action which he then puts to his DM? Making it clear that you need at least a breathing space after this incident and the one at school? he needs to make it clear that the safety and well-being of his own DDs will always come first an that ATM he cannot allow his DSis to be with them because he is seriously concerned about her current behaviour

OP I think its a case of grow a pair.

Its parents' job to protect their children. & your children are probably scared of this girl. In your case I wouldn't care less that she is just 11 - anyone who brings fear and danger near my DCs has to get lost. End of story.