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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

the nhs has failed as the uk has one of the lowest life expectancy in western Europe and is one of the richest countries

80 replies

ljwales · 10/04/2015 22:28

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Apparently the life expectancy for women is going down rapidly towards the male life expectancy. We have one of the most expensive health care systems in Europe but yet one of the worst levels of health. Aibu to think things really could be better?

OP posts:
nooddsocksforme · 10/04/2015 23:01

Health expenditure in the UK was 9.27 per cent of GDP in 2012. This compares to 16.90 per cent in the USA, 11.77 per cent in the Netherlands, 11.61 per cent in France, 11.27 per cent in Germany, 10.98 per cent in Denmark, 10.93 per cent in Canada and 9.19 per cent in Italy the nhs is cheap. people smoke,drink, eat too much and dont exercise enough. The NHS is not able to tell people how to live their lives but that is what reduces life expectancy. Why cant people take responsibility for their own actions . I wish I was thinner but to do that I need to eat and drink less not see my GP

NeedABumChange · 10/04/2015 23:02

It's nothing to do wight the nhs, it's the population living lazy, greedy slobbish lives and dying from drinking and eating too much.

ScathingContempt · 11/04/2015 04:38

In order to compare the performances of health systems you need to analyse the input and output of patients - state of health prior to treatment vs afterwards, number of patients treated etc. We are quite an unhealthy nation in terms of diet, alcohol and exercise so perhaps the NHS is performing better than ones is other countries simply because it's got a harder task to do. We don't know what our respective life expectancies would be without the health services. I would imagine Mediterranean countries would naturally have a better life expectancy than the UK without any health care.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 11/04/2015 06:13

Yeah sure, because the NHS forcefeeds peoplr with KFCs and makes them drink a bucket or 4 of cheap ale in Wetherspoons of a bank holiday....
YABU and more than a little goady, but I expect that was your aim.
And anybody who takes wikipedia as a source for their absurd declarations needs their internet priviledges revoked.

Sirzy · 11/04/2015 06:50

The NHS can not make people healthy if they don't want to be helped. The problem is so many people want cure when the problems arise without making an effort to keep themselves healthy and prevent problems or reduce the risk.

Howcanitbe · 11/04/2015 07:04

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Coyoacan · 11/04/2015 07:11

Mmm, OP. Hospitals and doctors are the last resort, really. UK residents consume a lot of alcohol and eat lots of processed food. The country virtually had to close down today because of smog, but according to a lot of people on mumsnet not owning and driving a car makes a person a major loser. People work longer hours than anywhere else in the EU and a lot of children are malnourished.

Howcanitbe · 11/04/2015 07:40

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ljwales · 11/04/2015 07:44

I'm not being goady, I'm trying too decide who to vote for, they all claim to be the party of the NHS and all promise more money, but I'm not sure money is the answer.

How - I did notice that Iceland has a much higher le, and they certainly don't have a med diet.

I thought the NHS did spend a lot on prevention, although it always seems awful advice ,- like replace pop with water or diet drinks Hmm

OP posts:
goshhhhhh · 11/04/2015 07:51

Read The Spirit Level. Health is much more related to inequality in society. The NHS largely picks up the pieces

Jackieharris · 11/04/2015 07:51

NHS spending is going up because the population is ageing.

Despite what you read in the daily fail most A&E admissions are for the over 85s not drunk teenagers.

The NHS is the national illness service not the national health service. It spends very little on public health or health campaigning/awareness raising. It treats people who are already sick.

Most people in the UK die of self inflicted lifestyle causes. It's our lifestyles that are causing illness and much of the nhs's costs.

If the government want to increase life expectancy (do they? I've seen no indication they do) then take action and spend money to cut smoking, drinking, sugar consumption and inactive lifestyles rather than putting more money into the NHS.

meandjulio · 11/04/2015 07:52

There's the thing though lj - do you give advice that people might actually get to, or do you advise the gold standard?

Maybe it's apocryphal but I have heard many times that the advice should be to eat 10 portions of fruit and veg a day but that 5 a day was chosen as being potentially achievable in a society where ONE portion of fruit and veg a day may be a rare sight.

Howcanitbe · 11/04/2015 08:04

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 11/04/2015 08:15

You're worried about the NHS and don't know who to vote for?

Okaaaay.

Maybe read the open letter the NHS doctors sent to the government this week?

Moln · 11/04/2015 08:18

In response to the Op's comment about LE in Iceland, but them not having a med diet. The Icelandic diet is a good one it's a very 'pure diet' without processed food (there's no McDonalds there!)

ljwales · 11/04/2015 08:26

That's not really true about McDonalds, they used to have them in Iceland for many years, but they closed them when Iceland went pop. There's still KFC and subway and all that other junk there.

OP posts:
Thesouthbutt · 11/04/2015 08:29

Giving health advice is no good. People often don't act rationally but emotively. Health inequalities is a big reason for worse health outcomes. Also industry!!!! Advertising and omnipresent offers of artificial shite processed food makes people, much more likely to consume those especially when sold at low prices. It's customary to eat shite quality chocolate, say over Easter and crap sweets at children's parties in the UK, this is not so in other European countries where a home made cake is on offer and that's it, no chocolate buttons, smarties, lollies etc. being part of this culture kind of forces you to at least partly participate in this unhealthy food consumption because food is often enjoyed socially and not eating what everyone else eats makes you or the dc stand out. We were given a huge amount of Easter chocolate of dubious quality with shitty additives etc. the dc had one each the rest landed in the bin. Also computer games, tv and not easily being able to play outside due to traffic makes dc spend less time running about working off their energy which can lead to hyperactivity, obesity and low mood (disclaimer this is my personal opinion, I'm no expert). Adults work in offices drive cars walk less etc. So blaming the NHS is rubbish, I think. The NHS gives superb service most of the time (not all of the time of course) but social, economic and cultural context needs to be considered. Also a sense of self worth. People who are at the bottom of society, poor, not v well educated maybe deprived are less likely to feel like they deserve the best in terms of health, food and experiences as they can't afford lovely holidays or shared lunches at gastro pubs. For some of these people eating unhealthy treats, going to mc Donald's or smoking or watching tv, playing vid games might be the only attainable 'quality' experience they can afford or are used to. An NHS nurse saying to them to exercise or eat healthy veg soup is a drop in the ocean and likely to be ineffective.

Viva la NHS, I'd say.

Thesouthbutt · 11/04/2015 08:30

Oh and in response to the op, I would say if anything, the uk is failing the NHS.

Thesouthbutt · 11/04/2015 08:34

I'd love for the food industry to be much tighter controlled, bicycle paths all around the country and car free zones, that should help. What's being done with cigarettes (hiding from view in shops, plain packaging, no ads) is a good step imo.

Thesouthbutt · 11/04/2015 08:37

Sorry for multiple post but also encouraging businesses to promote and facilitate exercise and provide healthy, tasty food would be great. That would be a holistic approach.

PeachyPants · 11/04/2015 08:38

A very small proportion of the NHS budget goes on health promotion, largely it is a reactive service. Personally I think the NHS does a great job but is undermined by internal markets and constant top down reorganisation and that the current government has made this worse.

DinkyDye · 11/04/2015 08:41

YANBU. As someone who has used other health care around the world the NHS is by far the worst I've experienced.

But from what l can gather it really depends where in the UK you are. I'm in London and my experience is terrible.

Howcanitbe · 11/04/2015 08:42

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DinkyDye · 11/04/2015 08:47

Agree How, it seems to be thinking, certainly on MN, that's its either the US system or the NHS. No discussion about other countries where it IS working.

Mistigri · 11/04/2015 08:49

Iceland has much lower levels of relative poverty and inequality.

There is absolutely zero doubt that life expectancy is related to poverty. There is a ten year difference in life expectancy between the ten longest-lived communities in Britain and the ten shortest-lived. All of the latter are in deprived areas of Scotland and northern England.

Healthcare plays a role of course, but life expectancy is primarily influenced by preventative care not by intervention when people are already ill.

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