To wonder if race/religion ignorance will ever end?

[WonderingWonder]

I'm British Pakistani and was brought up in a time when I feel racism and ignorance surrounding our race and religion in our city was generally quite high (mid 80's - mid 90's). I found myself ashamed of my heritage for a large part of my life until I went to university and found that different races could mix and not judge or be ignorant of one another. Even at work I've never found race or religion to be relevant to anyone.

Since having my dd and her starting school I genuinely thought things had changed and have invited children around for play dates and to parties to only find they're declined or not reciprocated for dd. Many times dd and her other Muslim Asian friends in her class are left out of party invites. Its very obvious the brown Muslims are being left out as there's only 4. I find this really disheartening, not only for dd, but for me because I believe in 2015 this shouldn't be happening.

When things like this happen, I really feel like segregating myself and dd. But then that's not what I want to teach her. She also tells me how the same group of white children in her class make comments to her about her black hair, and hair on her legs and one girl (who has red hair herself, so is a possible target for bullying) often tells dd that white skin is better than brown skin. Where would a 7 year old learn this from?!

AIBU to think racial and religious ignorance will never fully go away and I should just accept that and stop getting upset about it.

YABU to conflate race and religion.

YABU to just accept it but certainly not BU to feel that way you do.

I have you spoken to DD's school about what she is saying? I'd definitely be challenging that, absolutely not acceptable for your DD to have to tolerate that crap.

Where do you live? Some areas are worse than others I guess and its pretty international that 'otherness' will be treated differently - better or worse.

Out of interest - why describe the friends as 'other Muslim Asian' rather than British with xyz heritage? Our son is British (or as tells us, English actually), despite having a mixed background. He was born here, lives here and belongs here.

I just used Muslim Asian to best describe the children as one has recently moved over here so isn't british as such.

DD tells me she always tells the teacher when things like this happen and the teacher deals with it there and then so I don't feel it's appropriate I go in and talk to her if it's already been dealt with.

We live in a multicultural city and I've not had this problem myself living here in years. I've only noticed it when dd was born and I started meeting other parents in nurseries and school.

I don't know how you can make children be friends with others. At that age - boys still think they're better than girls. Being different makes you other. I don't know if that's attitudes picked up from home, society or just children who want to be with people like them.

It must be really hard. I've worked in schools which are multi cultural - you do sometimes see people mixing and then sometimes you see very distinct groups.

I don't know how you tackle it. You can tackle racism etc - but you can't make people be friends.

I would go in and speak to the teacher if it's happening repeatedly (sounds like it is), this sort of crap should absolutely not be tolerated, sorry you;re having to deal with this op.

My DC's school is very diverse. At the moment, 40% of children come from homes where English is spoken as an additional language.

For the most part, the kids and parents rub along together just fine.

But occasionally there will be racial/religious ignorance displayed from all parties. This is dealt with rather quickly by the staff.

Also it's occasionally assumed something is racially motivated when in fact it's not. For example the 7yr old who said white skin is better than brown, might just as easily have said, pink is better than blue. It's hard to know until you get to the bottom of it.

I would speak to the teacher about the, well bullying really, because things like that are coming from home and the media (how many famous singers/actresses are 'black' but seem to get paler and paler the more famous they get?).

Oddly enough I got bullied because of having very pale skin, and still get comments about how white/veiny/sunburned I am/get. I would love to have a natural colour to my skin.

Possibly it's the situation in the ME and the idiots who are rushing off to Syria etc, and those who live here yet encourage others to do so who get a lot of media coverage, that is making people feel like they want to cut off. People are now eyeballing darker skinned people not as 'different' or odd, but as what, potentially violent, 5th columnists?

Don't accept, but don't get angry - challenge.

What about if they hold their arm out and put it next to DD's and say "white skin is better than brown skin"?
I experienced horrid things when younger like girls saying "you can only play with us if you have blue or green eyes and white skin", so I find these type of comments more upsetting than they probably sound.

YANBU, but it should apply to everyone.
My then 7 year old daughter came home from school asking me what a 'Gori' was.
She was one of only 4 white girls in her class (3 English, 1 Polish) and the majority Pakistani girls were saying ''Eww you're Gori, go away'' and running away from her at break time.

'I think its beautiful', 'why?', 'says who?'...

When she's older 'you would die for skin this colour'.

What is 'gori'?

What about if they hold their arm out and put it next to DD's and say "white skin is better than brown skin"?

That sounds horrible to me, so does what you went through as a child.

I remember comparing skin colour to friends by holding our arms against each other but in a friendly way. Like 'ooh look at us, we are like a gap advert'. I was at a very multicultural school, I think black may have been the majority racial group but not noticebly so no one group stood out if you see what I mean.

It sounds to me like the school needs to be doing more. Fair enough the teacher is dealing with each incident but they shouldn't carry on happening. I would go in or write a letter and say your daughter has experienced X incidents, and you feel there is an under current of possibly racial tension there and ask what is being done to prevent more happening in future.

Gori means 'white girl', usually used as a slur.

Gori means white girl I believe

Sorry rebel. Yes I agree it is bad if your daughter is being excluded for being white. If we could be free from racial discrimination than that would mean white people didn't get picked on for their skin colour either.

OP - It will never go away because this is real life. All types of people exist. What we can do is control the types of people we put in authority to guarantee this rubbish gets shut down immediately in our schools etc

I completely disagree with some of the posts by the way - comparing it to boys not liking girls for example.

Being a good parent means not just feeding and clothing your kids, but having serious conversations about racism and intolerance.

I'm blessed to have gone to a school where racial intolerance was viewed as abhorrent. 6 year olds were being sent home on the spot their parents had to get them!! Yes they are only kids but it sent a message! If someone heard something racist kids would run and tell the teacher on the victims behalf :)

We had imternational day when everyone would bring in food from their ancestors background. We'd also dress in traditional clothes. English people made english food Pakistani's came in in saris little polish girls would get henna and try the jamaican food etc it was lovely! Sounds like a bloody Utopia right? But the point is it's more than giving kids a slap on the hand when they say the N word or don't let someone play because of their complexion.

We need to educate our kids in school so even when they come from racist homes they are in an environment where they can grow up one day come home and say you know what dad that's not right - I have black / asian/ white friends at school and they are bloody good people!

I learn stuff about bloody food from my DCs because the school has put in the effort, I was making hot coco as a one off before bed and my 4 year old said "not to much coco mummy the sugar isn't good"

Yes I agree rebel, it works both ways, but because of my experience I don't want any child being victimised for their skin colour or race and for that reason dd is taught to be kind and open minded. She would never use the term "gori" to refer to white girls (she doesn't even speak our language properly so has no idea what it means) and from what I gather, neither do any of her other classmates.

Most kids are drawn to those that are the most like them whether they distinguish by skin colour, religion, nationality, hair colour, favourite sport or liking one direction. You can't stop this and force children to play with others or invite them to parties.

That said, bullying, name calling on whatever basis needs sorting no matter who is the perpetrator.

At my dcs school there's a high proportion of polish children who only play with other polish children to the exclusion of everyone else whether they're white or not.

There's also a fair few Asian children who won't play with children who are white, some of these Asian children have been bullying and racist towards some of the white girls in my dd's class. There's also name calling including racist comments from some of the older white children at the school.

However I've noticed that the racist comments from the white children are, rightly, delt with as racism, but the racist comments from the non-white children are delt with less severely as bullying rather than racism.

Any comments to do with race or religion should be delt with in the same way no matter who makes them.

I get that you don't want your daughter victimised for her skin colour Wondering and it's great that you're raising her to be tolerant of others, but in the same way Rebel doesn't want her daughter to be victimised because she has white skin. That's part of the problem in that racist comments by white children/people are seen as worse than racist comments against white children/people.

Racism is abhorrent no matter who it's directed at.

I've been subject to racist comments but was told that it couldn't have been racist to me as I'm white British and the person who made the comment was Asian and therefore can't be racist.

I think your issue is OP you put your child in a school were they have the only brown face

One of the things I look for in a school is diversity so this is not a issue I ever have to come across

She's not the only Asian heritage kid though.

Crazy - funny what you said about birds of a feather... When DS was at nursery he and his best mates were all very very similar in looks -big eyes, big curls, similar skin tone - it was a standing joke that one day someone would take the wrong child. The boys were from: Middle East/UK, North Africa, Italy and France...

I live in a white area, and find that the brown children are ignored by the white children at school, excluded etc. I have found this as well amongst the mothers. No one does it obviously, and they would no doubt be horrified to be considered racist in any way, but I find it quite shocking. No problem at all at work, but it is a problem in the schools. And no, the brown children do not exclude the white ones. As a family, we are brown in skin colour only, and are in all cultural respects white, so my DDs would love to be included by the white girls. But they are not.

I find it quite disturbing and disgusting to see this trend in schools now. Our area is affluent middle class in London, in case that is of any relevance. The white parents seem scared of us for some reason.

Nochocolate it's part of human nature to seek out those who are similar to us to the exclusion of the 'out group', you see it with teens where you have the 'goths' 'skaters' 'bookworms' etc, also among adults there are groups of people who are similar but not quite as segregated as teens, and there's nothing wrong with that. It only becones a problem when bullying, fighting, name calling, racism starts happening.

The same happens with children, while at my dcs school there's are some children who stick together based on nationality and others, while fewer in number who mix with each other. My ds has a mix of friends from different racial groups who is would classify as rough and tumble, very energetic, my dd and friends avoid them like the plague as they prefer quieter games.

What I find sad is the few parents in this situation who drag race into it, x is excluded because she's black, when in fact x is excluded because she prefers football to singing.

I'm not for a second saying this is what's happening in op's case as there have been comments about skin colour, I'm just derailing slightly and saying that sometimes race or religion is dragged into things when it's not there reason for the exclusion from the group.

That's bloody horrible WonderingWonder! I'm a teacher and I wonder about the ethos in your dd's school. What are the children's parents like and do you speak to them? Never underestimate the cliquishness of 7 year old girls. Can you just persist with arranging play dates and the like or has it gone beyond that? A truly multicultural school is usually a wonderful place. I know- I used to work in one for a while. I think you need to speak to the teacher and have a discussion with her/him. The things you describe about school life/ 'teasing' should not be happening.