To not want my brother in law to move closer to us?

[mstumble]

Up until recently, myself, my partner and his brother were very close and got on great. He has no interest in getting a girlfriend or settling down so spends a lot of time with us. He adores my kids and they love him to bits. So a year ago, we decided to all buy a house together, this is not something he would have done alone (he's not much of a go getter) my DP did all the house hunting, negotiating, etc. The mortgage is in DP brother's name but we went halves on deposit and DP and I pay all the mortgage. When we eventually sell it, we will own just less than halves. At the time, it seemed a good investment for everyone. He was moving away and in with a friend paying cheap rent, but will end up owning more than half a 3 bed house. It turns out, it was the worst decision ever. All boundaries have been shifted. He lets himself in with his key, he rummages through the food cupboards, wanders around upstairs, even got changed in my bedroom the other day! The list goes on. If that isn't irritating enough, he has started treating the kids as if they are his own, telling them off, making decisions about what food they can eat, when they can watch telly, etc. It's a nightmare! He has admitted to me, he really misses them, hence why he is moving back! The other day, he let himself in and didn't even say hi to me, just went straight to the kids. Generally he is lovely, but at the moment I just feel so frustrated. The main reason, I find it so hard to have it out with him as I think he is pretty lonely and I don't want to upset him. I am absolutely dreading him moving back though. AIBU?

we are in no worse position than if we had been renting

Yes you are.

You have paid half the deposit on this house, which you could easily not get back.

Sorry bug you just proved you are stupidly naive in your last post.

This is a disaster waiting to happen, it's not your house and I don't think it will ever be.

You have your bil half the deposit then and he applied for a mortgage, you are now paying the rent to him and he pays the mortgage. There's nothing in your name? But also no rental agreement protecting your deposit and making clear who does repairs, pays bills etx.

mstumle your BIL is already taking liberties though. You can tell him not to eat your food or talk to your kids like they're his but you can't tell him not to move into his own house. Also, how are you expecting to get your deposit back unless he sells? And if he sells where are you going to live then?

Lots of PP have illuminated to you the reality of your situation but you seem to be burying your head in the sand. You CAN'T get anything legally drawn up now. This isn't your house and you BIL is coming home to roost!

This is a really worrying situation and I think the only thing you can do now is move out and rent your own place. Good luck.

OP I have read lots of threads like this and at this point they tend to go one of two ways.

1. The OP says thanks for the advice but really we're fine, my situation is different because of this, that and the other. PPs then stop posting, often off to help someone else who is looking to act on advice given.

In this case, this leaves your situation unresolved. Your BIL continues to annoy you and your financial situation remains precarious.

2. The OP acknowledges that their situation is bad - stares the difficult truth in the eyes - and the group MN wisdom comes on board to give the most amazing support. OP there are property lawyers, estate agents, mortgage brokers, divorcees , widowed PPs, you-name-it, reading and posting on your thread. That is an invaluable resource.

Right now you are in a very weak position and I expect that you feel helpless and can't see a way through.

However, I think that if you do follow the second path, combining advice here with RL legal advice (which can be obtained reasonably if you seek it out) slowly but SURELY you will find yourself with heaps more knowledge about this situation than DH and BIL.

Knowledge is power OP. I think it's time for you to get yourself in a position of power re your home (may not be this house) and your life and then I'm sure your other BIL issues will sort themselves out.

We're here for you OP. Use it!

I think you need to separate out the two issues.

Presumably you do trust your BIL or you would not have entered into this arrangement? If that is still the case then perhaps it's okay to leave the house as it is for a while longer. Although I can see the risks, basically you trusted him before so unless there's a reason not to now...?

But the other problem, of him taking liberties in your home and with your children needs sorting immediately. How do your dc react? And your dp? What's stopping you raising this with him?

This is just bizarre! You seriously contributed money towards the deposit and didn't get your interest recorded in any way?

Hi OP. Your BIL has bought your children. You're a lodger along with your DP.

Here's a scenario: You give BIL an ultimatum over his behaviour. He in turn gives DP one: chuck out mstumble and YOUR kids/MY DNs won't be homeless. I'll swear blind you're the primary carer so you get residence. She can see them EOW.

There is no scenario however bizarre, evil or stupid that you won't see on here or in RL. And the one I've outlined is legally doable.

What's the OP hiding ? There's a lot more to this than meets the eye. She's cagey/casual about getting her name or her dp's name on the mortgage or the house deeds. One has to wonder why ?

Also, why is OP 'hiding' behind the BL and his credit rating ? How did the OP's credit rating go down the toilet ? Is the OP being chased by creditors ? Is that why she doesn't want to come to the attention of lenders ? If they found out her and/or her partner's name was on the deeds of the house would that would be considered to be an asset which is already owed to an outstanding creditor/s ?

Another poster has commented on the OP's reluctance or refusal to get legal advice. Which, has been remarked on, is already to late.

I suspect the OP will get her comeuppance in under 12 months i.e. the BIL moves back in. Acts like he owns the place, because he does. Acts like you're all the same family, because you are and he's going to act like the head of the household either take it or leave it.

Let's see how 'lovely' he is then. Think you'll be getting a financial settlement to move out to cover the cost of your share of the deposit plus all your mortgage payments ? Yes, that will be lovely too, no doubt.

I wonder if he's told his friends how, 'benevolent' he's being towards you, your partner and the dc's ? I think the BIL thinks this is a temporary arrangement until you get back on your feet financially.

I'm not convinced that you can prove you are actually paying the mortgage rather than paying rent (given that it is pretty usual for buy-to-let landlords to use the rent the property earns to pay off a mortgage on it) - I think you are actually renting from your brother and he is going to end up owning 100% of the house while you own nothing and cannot prove it was ever intended differently.

'Trust' is a terrible thing to base financial decisions on. People have outlined a few but the one I see all the time is when people both genuinely believe they were right but there is no paperwork to back it up. Contracts are MORE important with friends and family. Because all you stand to lose with a stranger is money. With a family member you lose more than that.

You're bil is breaking some fairly basic boundaries about how to behave in someone else's home eg for most of us it's not OK for family who don't live with us to let themselves in without prior permission, to discipline our kids unless it's been agreed to first etc etc. If they visit and they are hungry we'd expect them to ask if they could grab a snack, and to use an area such as the bathroom for getting changed rather than a bedroom.

Could you start to firmly but gently address these issues as they come up? Start by letting him know how you want him to behave eg "bil would you please knock and wait for me to open door next time"

even if bil transfers a half share into their name it won't be legally binding for 7 yrs won't it? In the event if bil dying (or maybe even divorcing) i think you have to have survived large financial gifts (>£3k /yr/person) by 7 yrs for them to be recognised by a court....its designed to stop deathbed transfers to avoid inheritance tax....and probably to stop people hiding assets in a divorce. do you have such huge debts that a house would be repossessed if you owned it op? are you bankrupt or something?

I'd be a bit more concerned than you about the legalities of this: the mortgage payments are coming out of his bank account, right? There's no trace of you on the financial records; mortgage companies would surely get suspicious about a non-buy-to-let mortgage which is held by one person and paid by someone completely different.

In which case, is he declaring your payments to him to the Inland Revenue? Is there a legal reason why he now wants to be more present in this house, to give the impression that he lives there and you and your famiy are lodgers? A year's mortgage payments on a family home must be well over the level of income that you have to declare.