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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think I only sumg homeowners say this

80 replies

99pokerface · 03/04/2015 10:40

Listening to a thing about housing last nite and the pundit Kept saying well in Europe they rent and I would much rather rent than be a home ower

Did a little googling on said pundit and he lives in very smart part of town and recently I been hearing this a lot but it's bull shit said by only people who are not currently renting I have rented now finally have my own home and I would much rather own

We can decorate how we like we not paranoid about be homeless any moment And at the whim of the coucil if we want a reapair done we ring a guy pay and it gets done not sitting with no heating for 6 weeks while we wait for the coucil to sort their shit out I hated renting and I had a fairly secure tenancy can't imagin how sit it must be renting on the open market

So I think the pundit was a nob and only wankey homeowners say things like this

OP posts:

chaosmonkey · 03/04/2015 13:26

That sounds difficult too ptolomy - if you look at another section of the ONS report that I linked to before, you see how much housing costs have risen as a proportion of income - that affects homeowners as much as private renters.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 03/04/2015 14:05

Someone must have forgotten to send my Mum the landlord memo because she eventually got rid of the non paying family from hell 4 yrs after they moved in and not having paid one single month of full rent. They seemed to think it was a moveable figure...this month we can give you 200, etc etc.

I am renting, in Europe, and would like to know where this paradise is for tenants...because it's not where I am. We had a water leak from the upstairs apartment on 19th Nov last year and are still waiting for our landlord to deal with it. While we carryvon paying full rent obviously....

Bifald · 03/04/2015 14:22

skeppers I agree with you. And if a whole generation is made feel obligated to shift its mentality and rent, who are they renting all of these homes that will need to be available to rent from ? That'd make a lot of people who own two houses then? So half the country would own two houses and the other half wouldn't own their own house! That is not a shift in mentality that I would welcome.

Pipbin · 03/04/2015 14:52

Good point Bifald.
For there to be rentals like this there need to be landlords. Are the landlords in Europe individuals or companies?
I think if the law suddenly changed to be more like Europe there would be a lot of landlords selling up.

TwoOddSocks · 03/04/2015 15:57

TO be fair renting is much better in the rest of Europe. There are strict laws in place which protect renters. People often rent the same place for decades and aren't in constant risk of having to move or suddenly stump up for more rent. That said if he's suggesting that people in the UK (where renters are much more vulnerable) should just be happy to rent indefinitely while he's clearly not then yes he's being ridiculous.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 03/04/2015 16:38

Ha ha, too funny.

Strict laws?

Not in this bit of "Europe".

Apart from my previous post ^^ about our current situation (since November, 2 adults, 1 eleven yr old, but only 1 bedroom able to be used, therefore dp is on the sofa) our landlord can put the rent up exactly when and how much he wants (and does) calls round whenever he feels like it for a look-see and wouldn't allow us to chuck the (broken) washing machine that he'd left in the flat when we bought a new one. It has stood on our balcony wrapped in plastic for 4 yrs.

And believe it or not, he is a relatively good one.

There is another thread going about how utterly ridiculous these sweeping generalisations about "Europe" are. Might be an idea to have a read....

LotusLight · 03/04/2015 16:43

There is not enough profit in the UK for funds or pension funds to want to invest in letting property whereas there can be in some other countries.

TwoOddSocks · 03/04/2015 16:44

Sorry Drank I actually commented on the other thread about those generalisations not being true. I should have said in certain parts of Europe. In Germany, at least in the town I used to live in, most of my friends - mainly professionals (professors, Doctors etc.) rented and the older ones had been in the same property for decades. People felt comfortable decorating, making improvements etc. which I would never have done in the UK. Here in Belgium the entire rental system is set up for long term renting, it's actually a massive PITA if you want to rent for just a couple of years.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 03/04/2015 16:50

Actually, my landlord lives in Belgium.....(which I am very happy about means he can't come and wipe his white gloved fingers over my doors too often!) He is bonkers though, once drove all the way from Belgium for a teensy step ladder he'd left in the junk room. (Are teensy step ladders very rare or expensive there???? )

Pipbin · 03/04/2015 17:02

In Germany, at least in the town I used to live in, most of my friends - mainly professionals (professors, Doctors etc.) rented and the older ones had been in the same property for decades

So were they allowed to decorate etc? What happens when they are older, when homeowners won't have mortgages to pay? What happens if a landlord has tenants that aren't paying rent or trashing the place and they want to evict them?

TelephoneEggGnawingMachine · 03/04/2015 17:10

This is why I hate renting. Note the date - I just took this photo. Landlord doesn't give a shit. But heaven help us if we dare put a picture hook up...

To think I only sumg homeowners say this

TiggieBoo · 03/04/2015 17:34

In the UK, I would definitely buy rather than rent. But I lived in Germany for 2 years and none of my friends owned their house. Everyone was saying how great renting is, but I couldn't see it really. You had 3 months notice period as well, which is great if you are settled somewhere but not that great when you have to move for work, for example. But everything to do with housing seemed longer term than in UK, people renting the same house for many years and buying a house for life. Not my cup of tea.

Velocitractor · 03/04/2015 17:40

Well I rent in Europe (to clarify, non-UK Europe )

It is easier and more protected than renting in the UK(in my experience). Would rather to buy my own place though (we're currently saving for the deposit).

TwoOddSocks · 03/04/2015 18:34

Well actually everything is pretty expensive here in Belgium. The white gloves thing also sounds familiar, while it's easy to stay in the same property long term in Belgium when you do move they do basically stalk the apartment with a pair of white gloves and a fine tooth looking for any minute speck of dust they can charge you for. Grrrrrr. I'd say Germany was a much better example of renting long term in my experience.

IWannaHoldYourHand · 03/04/2015 18:48

We're homeowners, we inherited a wreck. We've spent more than we can afford on it but its still a dump, and yet more things need repairing constantly. Yesterday our driveway pretty much collapsed, our heatings not been working for 2 months.

We've ploughed all we have into the house, and borrowed all we can, and yet its still falling apart. I'm sure there is plenty wrong with the rental system, but right now an EU style rent seems like heaven.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 03/04/2015 18:53

I actually lived in Belgium when I was a student for a year and was soooooo broke.

Perhaps I should have opened a step ladder business. When we moved in to this flat he showed us his secret locked room and asked if we minded him leaving his stuff there. Having been here now 15 years....we asked if he would mind terribly moving his shite so we could use the room. It was full of lightbulbs and half used toilet rolls and those things you dangle over the edge of the toilet. Weirdo. He's not Belgian though, his wife is. He is Italian. And once, when I was in the UK so paid the rent by bank transfer in ££ I cocked up the exchange and was about 80c out. He phoned immediately and told me to rectify it. knobber

Meanwhile, my poor Mum gets called out at all hours by her tenants (note: the house is on the edge of a lot of green land, bit of a park, trees etc, so insects etc) and she'll get there and the tenants will show her their matchbox with an earwig in it. Which might probably have come from their dahlias.

Moral of the tail being, there are bonkers twats of landlords, and bonkers twats of tenants. It's not simply a them and us thing.

Downtheroadfirstonleft · 03/04/2015 18:56

There are lots of people who prefer to rent than buy. It depends on your priorities, circumstances, stage in life etc., etc.

Theycallmemellowjello · 03/04/2015 19:54

well just because the pundit lives in a smart part of town, that doesn't mean they don't rent!

Also, the laws in some other European countries (eg Germany) are much more favourable to tenants - rent control, much better security of tenancy etc. I think that if we had those kinds of controls people would be happier to rent.

I do think that it would be fine for fewer people to own homes if conditions for renters were better.

sailoratsea · 03/04/2015 20:35

I am a homeowner and it is much better for me than renting ever was. Rent was more than the mortgage which is now paid off. So now I own my own home and have nothing to pay. It's not totally ideal as the house is old, doesn't have enough bedrooms to avoid a squeeze and has depreciated hugely in value (am in Ireland). But it is a good situation to be in and I am happy with it. Paying someone else's mortgage every month was okay for a while but I was always a bit anxious about the future. I worried about losing my job etc. Now if I lost my job I'd still have the roof over my head.

Skiptonlass · 03/04/2015 20:55

Renting in Europe is just so different though. Firstly, there are far fewer small scale BTL landlords. Most rentals where I live are owned by big companies that own the whole block. Here you pay a monthly fee and for that you get heat (not insignificant in sweden...) hot water, some utilities and maintenance. Everything is kept really nicely, fully renovated after x years etc. There just isn't the culture of shitty landlords that are too common in the UK. ( I've had some lovely landlords over the years, and some real horrors.)

Even if you buy a flat in sweden you still pay that monthly fee because although you own the flat you don't own the building - so you can be paying up to several hundred quid a month, less for older properties, but you never need to worry about the roof leaking, and every so many years they will renovate the bathroom and kitchen for you - it's seen as an investment in the fabric of the building. As a result, the standards here are far above the UK in the middle market.

However... It's an absolute sod to find a rental somewhere nice. Ve trial stockholm has a twenty five year waiting list ! So you end up with second hand contracts which can be dodgy.

The problem in the UK is that:

1: housing stock is not at a level to meet the needs of the population
2: much of that stock is in very poor condition
3: too many rentals are done by chancers and con men
4: there's insufficient protection for both renter and Rentee
5: wages are too low compared to the cost of living (because the UK is a low skill economy)
6: rents are too high and artificially propped up by benefit payments which effectively subsidise private landlords.

It's alright politicians banging on about renting in Europe but the UK rental market is too different to compare. It needs a serious shake up.

Skiptonlass · 03/04/2015 20:59

Which country are you in, dranksangria? I'm only familiar with Scandinavia, Germany and France ( and the UK) so I suppose my outlook is biased by that.

mizu · 03/04/2015 21:18

I've lived in 25 different properties - I'm 42 - and still don't own.

Have been a teacher for 20 years, here and abroad but work in FE which pays appallingly.

We are saving for a house deposit but with children it is hard.

Hate renting, lived in a damp, frigging cold house for 7 years and we have recently moved out to a flat which is dry and warm. However we have an inspection next week. Yep, an inspection to make sure we are living in it properly.

I have 3 siblings and only one of them owns and he is the one who left school at 16.

House prices are TOO high and anything I save makes no interest at all.

Tobyjugg · 03/04/2015 21:50

Can the government tell me how they are going to house the generation who rent when it comes to pension age

That is a very, very good question.

TheoriginalLEM · 03/04/2015 22:17

Owning your own home does not always bring security - we struggle to pay our mortgage every single month due to DP's erratic self employed wages. We did get into mortgage arrears and in all fairness the bank were understanding to a point, but that is a whole world of stress i can tell you :(

Any repairs to the house would be ££££'s if DP wasn't a carpenter/builder with friends who are plumbers/sparks and any repairs we do ourselves. Maintainence is quite a different matter - the place is fairly falling down around my ears due to lack of funds/time to do it.

On the reverse, i have been at the whim of a useless landlord in rented accomodation.

My mother has a council house and does get repairs done fairly promptly, however she does play the frail old lady card (oh the irony!)

I think there are pro's and cons with all of these "choices" (obviously there isn't always a choice). We don't feel like the house is ours though - we feel like it is the banks, we struggle (like many others) and the only thing that makes that feel worth it is the knowledge that we will have something to pass to the DC (unless of course one of us needs any form of care in our old age!)

TwoOddSocks · 03/04/2015 22:37

Yes they decorated, even renovated slightly in collaboration with landlords. In fact many flats came much less ready for use than I was used to in the UK and tenants would make it their own with the intention of staying there long term (some came without any kitchen and tenants would install their own, no light fittings etc.).

I have no idea what they did at retirement age, but property isn't the only or necessarily the best investment financially so the money we in the UK pay as interest on our mortgage could just as easily have been put into a low yield, low return investment which would fund retirement in addition to a pension. (Their social welfare net seemed well developed). People in the UK who don't own have this problem after all but without a comfortable rental market (rents are much lower in Germany compared to an equivalent town in the UK).

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