To wonder about the values of Tory/UKIP voters

[Campaspe]

Why would anyone vote for a party that promotes austerity rather than a progressive, liberal party (Labour, SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru)? I'm not saying for a minute that Tory voters don't care about poor or vulnerable people, so how do they square their political support with their conscience? Is it that these voters genuinely believe Labour caused the recession (most analysts now discredit this theory and point to Tory failure to manage the deficit, but maybe these voters aren't aware).

So, given the economic mismanagement stuff doesn't stick, why??? Dislike of Ed Miliband - in which case, why not another progressive party? How do such voters justify the bedroom tax, benefit sanctions, supporting tax evasion, failure to protect libraries, the growing divide between rich and poor etc etc. What are their reasons???

There was a global financial crisis caused by the unregulated, reckless banking industry. This industry was fully supported by both Labour and the Conservatives. The conservatives had up until this point fully supported Labour in their deregulation of financial services.

Next the banks had to be bailed out. The Labour Government did this by creating imaginary money. Everyone involved agreed that this money was real, but it barely mattered because none of us got to see a penny of it. At the same time that this money was 'created' (basically 000s on a screen) a corresponding amount of debt was created. The Tories fully supported this because it kept their rich banking mates in business. Hence the deficit.

So anyone on here blaming Labour for wrecking the economy like some sexist stereotype of a 50s housewife, and fetishing the stern-but-fair Daddy-comes-home Tories dishing out appropriate punishment to the plebs and wifey, is simply ignoring what actually happened prior to the financial crisis.

And I actually really fucking hate the Labour party, so I've no reason to be inventing the Tories' joint culpability.

Oh, and in case you're still wondering, money isn't real. It's a shared agreement to facilitate the movement of goods and services in a society - a collective hallucination if you will. So the 'no money left' note was by definition neo-liberal bollocks. What it should have said was 'tell them there's no money left (for the poor)'.

and yet financial disasters have been more regular under Tory governments...
1973
1987
1992
2014

There was no 'global' banking crisis, there was a UK and US one - directly created by the Labour policies of banking regulation, including the tripartate system, whch was not supported by the Conservatives. The FSA approved the ABN AMro deal which destroyed RBS in 2007, when it was obvious to all the crisis was looming.
Oh, and money is as good as real, as in other people can stop sharing the 'illusion' and the government cannot pay its bills, so people starve - happened before, happening in Greece, could happen again.

Ahh, so what was happening in France, Germany, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, nothing to do with the global. Of course there was a global crisis, and it was due to banks being far to eager to throw money around.

Economic crisis was partially global. Australia avoided it with a careful economic policy. The bubble had to burst at some point. Brown was utterly foolish to think he had stopped boom & bust cycle.
Think OP is totally unreasonable in her assessment of the Tories. These days there is not a massive amount between labour & Tory parties. And labour will introduce austerity cuts. You would be v naive to believe otherwise. I would definitely vote Labour but I find Miliband totally unconvincing. He should have remained with his lecturing job. His brother would have been far better IMO. I cannot decide whether to go Left or Right. I will decide nearer the time- anything to stop the SNP. my local SNP candidate has not even visited my town (she lives in Glasgow) because they are so sure of winning. So am in a rural constituency and she knows nothing about our area. We have an excellent labour MP but I have always voted Tory. Even my my parents are considering labour now. I am massively concerned by the way the SNP are stifling debate & freedom of speech in this country. Everything is being centralised. I care more about the that more than left & right.
PS I never voted Tory because I want more money..?

China, India, South Korea, Indonesia, Qatar, some South American countries - most notably Brazil, Poland and Slovakia were also unaffected by the Global Banking Crisis.

Next you'll be telling us that World War II wasn't a 'world' war...

Not at all Smillas everyone always uses Australia as an example of a country that escaped and I just thought I'd find a few different examples..

I muse about why they escaped and if they are the countries who are holding our debt though.

The only countries with banks that needed funding are:

US
UK
Ireland
Spain
Iceland

Other countries were hit by the fallout

The countries with banks needing a bailout were

US
UK
Ireland
Spain
Iceland

did n't ABM in the Netherlands (almost) fail? And was the failing of that Ducth bank (then being taken over by clever Scottish bank) not part of the whole house of cards?

Is Poland doing well/unaffected? Why do so many Poles looking for work in UK then? (genuine question, don't know about Polish banks)

I thought banks were bailed out in France and Greece and also Switzerland so I am surprised at that short list.

Not sure about Poland 'doing well' depends what the criteria for 'doing well' is but apparently they didn't go into recession but, again, I wonder if these are just dogmatic criteria that 'x' means 'y' and don't fully reflect the day to day reality.

Surprised that South Korea was named as a country not affected by the global financial crisis as I thought it one of the countries heavily involved in global banking.

ABN Amro was taken over by RBS for £49bn in 2007 - it was indeed worthles and the reason RBs needed bailing out. The FSA should have blocked it but didn't, one of the Labour regulatory failings.
Poland is doing fine based on its own history, but all the eastern bloc countries are significantly poorer than the UK, so they want to live here and are prepared to work harder for less as they are becoming wealthy compared to thier compatriots. This suited the Labour party as it kept inflation low by restraining wages, and they made up for it by providing huge quantities of in-work benefits and calling anyone who mentioned a racist.
Some European banks needed some support because they had lent to the PIGS countries (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain) whose governments had over-borrowed - all but Ireland due to profligate spending policies, Ireland managed to bankrupt itself bailing out its banks.

What's it say about somone who thinks their better than everyone because they vote labour

It tells me they are deeply unpleasant and best avoided tbh

YANBU

I struggle to understand why people would vote for a party who treat disabled and vunerable people so horribly. But I have friends who do that are nice people in general. However some have openly slated people on benefits on facebook as if it is a choice for all. I think some people vote for what suits them personally and others go with shared values and what benefits society. All parties are pretty crap though so it's not easy.

carol no I didn't know that. Can you tell me more about it? (NHS money going to profit making enterprises).

I'm glad if UKIP voters avoid me

fanjo seriously if I found out one of my friends was going to vote UKIP I would find it very hard not to shout.

Yes I would have to question the friendship.

makemine - Everything the NHS spends that is not to NHS employees goes to profit making businesses. These are:

Drug companies
Pharmacies
Equipment suppliers
PFI hedge funds
GPs - who are self-employed
Private cleaning firms
Etc

Jellybeans Is it shared values and a benefit to society to trap people in a life of benefits and make thier children pay for it?

Labour's response to the economic crisis was the right one.

Since May 2010, the deficit has rocketed from 50% GDP to 80% GDP.

The deficit is falling slightly because the Coalition's own out of control borrowing has eased slightly.

And what was all this debt for? What has the money been squandered on in the past 5 years?

Money goes from poor to rich

Thinking now - all this money has been frittered away despite swingeing cuts and despite the manufactured boosts to the treasury such as selling Eurostar (extremely bad decision) and Royal Mail.

So exactly what has happened in the last 5 years? And bollix about cleaning up the last government's mess is no longer acceptable, if it ever was.