To wonder about the values of Tory/UKIP voters

[Campaspe]

Why would anyone vote for a party that promotes austerity rather than a progressive, liberal party (Labour, SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru)? I'm not saying for a minute that Tory voters don't care about poor or vulnerable people, so how do they square their political support with their conscience? Is it that these voters genuinely believe Labour caused the recession (most analysts now discredit this theory and point to Tory failure to manage the deficit, but maybe these voters aren't aware).

So, given the economic mismanagement stuff doesn't stick, why??? Dislike of Ed Miliband - in which case, why not another progressive party? How do such voters justify the bedroom tax, benefit sanctions, supporting tax evasion, failure to protect libraries, the growing divide between rich and poor etc etc. What are their reasons???

My father is a ukip supporter he was on strike in the 80s because he worked in the coal industry. He is definitely not a former Tory. He believes labour have let down the working class because of open door immigration. Wage deflation higher cost of living etc. he doesn't blame foreigners just the politicians for allowing it to happen. He doesn't think that it's right that labour sold off a lot of heavy industry when they were in power. Certainly true where he lives. Plus he reckons Milliband et al, just think working class people are thick. He's voting ukip to teach labour a lesson, he thinks that if enough people do then labour might start supporting the working class again and stop taking their support for granted. For him it's either vote ukip or don't vote at all.

I keep seeing Tory supporters telling the story that Labour always messes up the economy, and it only gets sorted out by Tories riding in to save the day.

Here's an alternative version: there is an economic cycle, with periods of boom and bust (despite Gordon Brown's wishful thinking!). Barring really radical interventions, no party is likely to change that. People get scared into voting Tory when there's a recession, and give them the credit for the inevitable recovery.

What if we try sticking with a centre-left party through the bad times for a change? We might just find that a bit of sensibly-applied stimulus from maintaining government spending would bring the good times back round just as quickly: plenty of respectable economists think so!

Casper

Please read about the 70's and 80's economic policy, or look at China, parts of Africa etc. There was significant change, led by the UK, followed by all the successful economies in the world.

Labour "progressive" ROFLMAO

Labour love telling other show to live whilst not doing the same.

Diane Abbott and her privately educated kid. whilst the filthy rich Tory leader toff Eton bastard sends all his to State schools.

I'd think on that.

My father is a ukip supporter he was on strike in the 80s because he worked in the coal industry. He is definitely not a former Tory. He believes labour have let down the working class because of open door immigration. Wage deflation higher cost of living etc. he doesn't blame foreigners just the politicians for allowing it to happen. He doesn't think that it's right that labour sold off a lot of heavy industry when they were in power. Certainly true where he lives. Plus he reckons Milliband et al, just think working class people are thick. He's voting ukip to teach labour a lesson, he thinks that if enough people do then labour might start supporting the working class again and stop taking their support for granted. For him it's either vote ukip or don't vote at all.

This is a great post. I'm not a UKIP supporter, but neither do I dismiss them as the party of racists and thickos for these reasons.

I am also voting Tory.

Most UKIP support is drawn from tradiational , decent working class people who feel utterly abandoned and sidelined by Millibands particular brand of champagne socialism.

I will never, ever vote for a party who want to introduce a tax grab on people whose homes are worth over a certain amount. A £2m home in London does not mean you have spare thousands of pounds lying about - far from it. Why should you be taxed on income as you earn it and save for a deposit, taxed again when you buy a house in the form of stamp duty and then taxed a third time because of an arbitrary home valuation above which you are deemed to be 'rich' and therefore can afford it?

Because that is how Labour works, edwin.

On the politics of envy, class hatred, greed and control.

Labour through and through. If you work hard, own a home and, god forbid, save some money, they will screw you one way or another, always have done. People have very short memories!

The mansion tax is terrifying and a big part of my voting Tory.

The mansion tax is terrifying and a big part of my voting Tory.

Yes. It will start at 2m and soon be much, much lower.

Many people will simply not be able to pay it. They'll have to sell up. Some of those will be elderly or ill or disabled.

But hey, it's okay to hurt them as they are other and live in big houses. In Labour's eyes only the poor have value .

Because disabled people being left with no money, no food and no shelter isn't terrifying at all, is it

So you want to punish more of them? Can you show us where this is happening, please?

It's the general perception that 'rich' people are evil personified and must be punished by the seemingly unlimited raiding of their income, their pensions, their homes that I can't support. Of course vulnerable people need help and support, but not to the extent that others need to sell their homes to pay for it.

Agreed edwin.

The perception that just by dint of having a bit of cash you are an evil, greedy bastards and that ALL poor people are downtrodden, decent, kind, selfless and good and victims of circumstance.
All The Rich are lucky and all The Poor, unlucky. That no one actually makes choices, take srisks or fucks up all by themselves.

I suspect the Mansion Tax will have damaged Labour's support in London. Nobody believes the threshold will stay at £2m for long. A paper increase in property values does not represent an actual increase in income so why should you be taxed because of an unrealised gain. It looks like going back to squeezing the rich until the pips squeak.

Yes.

It will be down below a million before their term is out.

Smilla There may not be a direct equivalent of Housing Benefit but there is such a thing as boligstøtte, which I understand is a lot smaller in amount, but that is not to say that people in need of support with their housing costs are left to struggle any more than British citizens are. I'm honestly struggling to see why you would automatically interpret your Danish friend's surprise at how the British welfare system organises its support systems as surprise at how 'generous' it is, rather than surprise at how different it is.

Less of the treating people who dare to speak about a topic with disdain please. It does you no favours. I didn't "automatically interpret" what my Danish friend said, any more than you interpreted classification of models to make the British social welfare system look less than generous for political purposes. His surprise was due to his thinking the Danish system was very generous and finding out just what the British system does in fact pay for.

I'm a European competition lawyer working in Brussels. I can ask the Danish representation here as much as you like whether they would get housing benefit paid the same way as in Britain, and I'm sure the answer would come back that the British system is surprisingly generous.

Why on earth do you think immigrants from other parts of Europe choose to move to the UK? To listen to sociologists droning on about the supposed theoretical generosity of various systems of generous welfare benefits, or to actually benefit from the UK system as a whole? And yes, before you start the supercilious droning on again, I do know about the rules on claiming under European law, funnily enough.

The very fact that a cap on benefits to 26K TAX FREE is required tells you everything you need to know about how generous our welfare state is.

And the SNP and Labour want to abolish that cap and reintroduce the workfree to million pound pads for free.

Real equality at work.

The Tory benefit bashing ideology is a completely new invention

No it isnt I remember Peter Lilleys speech circa 1990 bashing single parents

He sang a ditty at the Tory Conference to the tune of a G&S song I've got a little list. Prat

I'm voting for the lesser of 2 evils and in my mind that is tory. I agree with many of labour's principles but I don't trust them to not fuck up again and ruin our childrens future further. And ed miliband is a sorry excuse for a leader.

For those saying tory voters just want to stay rich that is incredibly unfair. Between dh and i we pay £23k in tax every year. Do we resent it? No. Would we pay more? Yes absolutely. I am happy that some of my taxes help the vulnerable and needy in society. But I don't think labour can sort this mess out and i think the tories can do a better job.