Priority admissions to grammar for free school meals

[polycomfort]

I'm pretty much not a person to start hand-wringing over low income families getting breaks. Happy for people less fortunate to get the odd leg up. Fine.

But I'm really angry to have just read that the local grammar school has just started giving priority admission to children claiming free school meals. I understand they get an extra £900 per child so I get that there is probably a financial benefit for the schools themselves. But I've been practicing with my daughter every evening (can't afford a tutor) using books I've bought cheap on Amazon and was thinking she might be just about good to go after lots of effort from both of us and now I'm just thinking what's the point? There are 20 applications per space as it is, and now just because I'm not poor she has even less of a chance. We don't have a high income but I work full time and so she doesn't get free school meals. For my efforts I may end up having to send my really rather bright daughter to the crappy (and it is crap) local comp even though she may be brighter than a child whose parent doesn't bust a gut to work every day of the week.

I don't think it's okay for grammar schools to be crammed full of wealthy kids who could go to private school, but couldn't they do a household income cut off rather than using a free school meal as the criteria? Then all the kids who can't afford to go to private school could be assessed for grammar school. I don't see why kids from the middle income should be penalised.

" She's working really hard and I don't want that to go to waste so that someone less bright might get her spot just because they have poor parents."

Your child has supportive parents and is working very hard, and has help to work hard and in the right way. I think it's pretty safe to say that if a child without her advantages passes the test, that child is brighter than yours and deserves the place.

What are the GCSE results like?

That's great beloved. Well done for living in an area where you have that choice. Our secondary is crap.

"Kids all smoking right outside, always stories in the paper because someone's been excluded for drugs, or weapons, poor grades, high exclusion rates, faces from year 11 hanging around two months after they've left school with pushchairs.."

And kids from the grammar don't smoke? Such naïveté! And many people would think a high exclusion rate means they are tackling disciplinary issues. Pushchairs? Not entirely sure that's the school's fault. How do it's high attainers do exam wise?

So these children who are very poor but who have the ability despite no input or care from parents... Do you really think they're going to apply for the grammar school?

No. They won't.

The ones who are very poor but their parents care like I do, will practice, and apply. And they will stand a better chance because they are poor.

Poly have you checked whether the FSM places are newly created places (increased capacity) rather than places 'taken' from other candidates? Does the admission criteria say what happens to the FSM allocation of places if not enough FSM kids apply/pass. From reading through admission criteria and critic write ups these changes to enable more FSM kids to have a chance of getting a grammar place isn't really having much impact. If your dd is bright enough she will get a place regardless of a few token places (perhaps) going to FSM kids.

That's funny. Naivety, no. Of course they smoke. But they have enough respect and class not to do it on the street, or outside their school and that's life isn't it.

How do the high attainers do?

"That's great beloved. Well done for living in an area where you have that choice. Our secondary is crap."

Actually loads of parents DO think the comprehensives my children attend/will attend are 'crap' - hence a thriving private school system in the area which skims off approximately 15% of the highest achieving children and grammar schools which attract literally thousands to their entrance exams.

You haven't said why you think your local schools are crap other than you clearly think the kids are a bunch of chavs.

There are plenty of rough kids at the schools my dc's go to. You'd probably think these schools weren't good enough for your dc.

Not good itsallkickimgoff

Yes I do think that, beloved.

Children at our local private prep schools are educated for 6 years in classes of 15 - 20 well behaved children, almost none of whom has intensive need for behavioural or learning support

so how are these schools, which at primary level are going to have high no's of high achievers...going to cope with these high achievers at secondary level.

Your saying comps can cope - with high achievers but your listing reasons why they fail compared to private preps at state primary level.

"But they have enough respect and class not to do it on the street, or outside their school and that's life isn't it."

I went to a private school where many children achieved very highly.

A lot of the kids smoked like chimneys. Not being caught wasn't about respect or lack of respect. It was about the fact that it's very easy to expel kids from private schools and very hard to chuck them out of state schools. So the kids at my school did their smoking in private. And shagging, and drug taking.

You haven't told us what the exam results are like.

Another point is that having been involved in 100s upon 100s of hires in to quite a desirable company, children from the state school we are in catchment for are immediately snubbed. I don't understand the mentality of a parent who wouldn't just want all the possible doors opened for their children. I mean.. Great... Socially you're just wonderful for educating your child side by side with underachievers. But I wouldn't be all that comforted by the pat on the back knowing that I could have given her a bigger leg up.

What makes you think compreensives can't cope with high ability children? Secondqry moderns somtimes find it a bit of a challenge, simply because it's difficult to deal with veery small numbers. But compreensives all over th country manage. There are only 164 grammar schoolsm you know!,

You don't really know much about kids from comprehensive schools, do you, OP?

Or kids from grammar schools, for that matter.

poly, your fight is with the system, not with the bright kids who are being given a chance. Like others have said, this is not going to lead to droves of FSM pupils being given an advantage, as there are so many other variables that mean their parents won't even bother considering the Grammar.

High exclusion rates do mean a good attitude to disciplinary issues btw, Hayluyt. Means bad behaviour won't be tolerated and sends a very clear message about aspiration and what you're at school for.

ecause otherwise they might meet a FSM child in the lunch queue and catch oik

You know, I had friends at school who were told to keep away from me, probably thought I or my family were Oik's and I find this comment highly offensive. ^

What is OIK?

Kids at the uber-expensive private school opposite my house smoke.....

"children from the state school we are in catchment for are immediately snubbed."

Wow. I hope the company gets sued - that is fucking outrageous. And typical of the sort of social divisiveness the selective system creates.

GCSE results?

And op are you really unconfident of your child's academic ability and your parental ability that you need to avoid schools where kids smoke and get pregnant. Is there some reason you think those behaviours will transfer to your kid?

superexcited well to start with I'd spend nothing on trident...
plus I don't buy the rhetoric that as a nation we are 'broke' so can't invest in education. There have been plenty of times when the national debt has been higher for longer plus we are the 6th richest country in the world of course we can afford to spend more on education- we just chose not to. Instead we choose to give tax breaks to multinationals, have lax tax systems that encourage off-shoring (loosing us billions in tax revenues), spend large sums of money subsidsing low wages so that the working poor can house themselves and eat whilst large companies continue to make profits by keeping wages low...... umme you're really not going to vote for me now are you

beloved

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-are-failing-brightest-pupils-more-than-40-of-comprehensive-schools-are-not-challenging-the-most-able-ofsted-warns-8656266.html

A survey of non-selective state secondary schools by education standards watchdog Ofsted found that more than 40 per cent were failing to help the most able pupils achieve their potential.

Almost two-thirds (65,000) of those who achieved top grades (level five) in English and maths national curriculum tests at 11 failed to go on and get the A or A grade at GCSE in the subjects that was expected of them*.

Do you want me too google more? As there are tons of articles on this.

And do you really claim to know, every single one of the teachers along side you, and their grades, and their ability, and their motivations for choosing which school? Please

Yes but a better brand of fag?