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Original poster

Priority admissions to grammar for free school meals

999 replies

polycomfort · 02/04/2015 14:58

I'm pretty much not a person to start hand-wringing over low income families getting breaks. Happy for people less fortunate to get the odd leg up. Fine.

But I'm really angry to have just read that the local grammar school has just started giving priority admission to children claiming free school meals. I understand they get an extra £900 per child so I get that there is probably a financial benefit for the schools themselves. But I've been practicing with my daughter every evening (can't afford a tutor) using books I've bought cheap on Amazon and was thinking she might be just about good to go after lots of effort from both of us and now I'm just thinking what's the point? There are 20 applications per space as it is, and now just because I'm not poor she has even less of a chance. We don't have a high income but I work full time and so she doesn't get free school meals. For my efforts I may end up having to send my really rather bright daughter to the crappy (and it is crap) local comp even though she may be brighter than a child whose parent doesn't bust a gut to work every day of the week.

I don't think it's okay for grammar schools to be crammed full of wealthy kids who could go to private school, but couldn't they do a household income cut off rather than using a free school meal as the criteria? Then all the kids who can't afford to go to private school could be assessed for grammar school. I don't see why kids from the middle income should be penalised.

OP posts:
Original poster
polycomfort · 02/04/2015 22:04

titchy as such an inexperienced and naive parent, do enlighten me in how you wise parents assess which schools are best please?

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Original poster
polycomfort · 02/04/2015 22:07

Anothernumberone - I had come to terms long ago with the fact that she'd be competing with rich tutored kids. It's the fact that I now find she also had to compete with children who get lower scores but who are poorer than us that I feel defeated.

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BeyondRepair · 02/04/2015 22:09

poly I understand your Ire, and I am going to be like you, a DIY job at home Grin but do have faith in your DC and your own sheer determination.

And appeal if she doesn't get it.

I want Dc with natural ability to get into schools we trust to nuture that ability and I think the FSm thing, whilst being a blunt tool, is a better tool than nothing to help those dc, however this MUST be backed up with far far more support from state primaries, to help their own, like private preps do.

Then perhaps some capping of richer preps accessing grammars...

BeyondRepair · 02/04/2015 22:10

poly if its any comfort I have seen posters also feel defeated on this issue and their dc are now safely in good schools they can trust to educate them properly.

PurpleDaisies · 02/04/2015 22:11

titchy and andrewofgg I don't know who's right! I'm not in the business but I'd have thought students from difficult backgrounds could look much less impressive on paper than someone with well connected rich parents who can call in favours for work experience etc etc. Knowing something about the applicant's background for context might be useful to the uni. But appreciate this is a bit off the original topic now.

Original poster
polycomfort · 02/04/2015 22:12

No titchy, but hey aren't the ones applying to grammar schools are they?

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titchy · 02/04/2015 22:15

Most are good enough.... You exclude any where there are NO high attainers, or maybe only half a dozen, assuming you're child is a high attainer. You pick a school that sets (most do) and one that is relatively easy to travel to. If you can tick those boxes, hand on heart, with a parent engaged with their education, who facilitates one or two extra curricula activities, your child will be successful.

Assuming you have a choice of course - most of us don't.

I am actually trying to be reassuring by the way, not sure the snarkiness is necessary.

Original poster
polycomfort · 02/04/2015 22:17

Thanks beyondrepair Smile

I hope she'll be okay anyway. I know she's very fortunate. The other option is to move but that will mean we have less money as living in a more expensive area, but she'll have a better comp to go to at least. Although the house move on top of moving up to secondary might be counter productive. Who knows.

I guess I just felt like my only hope of her going to a decent school had drifted even further from reach and that through trying to do right by her, ie. Building financial security, I'd actually done her out of the opportunity... But not enough so that I could pay to go private.

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titchy · 02/04/2015 22:17

Purple - off topic but really it's grades that count, not work experience with daddy's friend.

BeyondRepair · 02/04/2015 22:18

thanks for reassurance titchy, whoever you are but this is not reassuring and there are plenty more where this came from

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/schools-are-failing-brightest-pupils-more-than-40-of-comprehensive-schools-are-not-challenging-the-most-able-ofsted-warns-8656266.html

Original poster
polycomfort · 02/04/2015 22:20

Titchy - there is no "discounting" or "picking" around here. You get what you're given. In fact, this past year there were no spaces in the absolute hovel of a school that is closest to us and so our neighbours kid has to get two buses to reach a mildly better but similarly awful school in the next town

I'm sorry if I sound snarky to you but you seem to take the position that I'm some kind of idiot who hadn't actually thought about this.

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BeyondRepair · 02/04/2015 22:21

poly I understand but don't be defeated yet.

Education is all and its not something to piss around with, its our duty to do the best we can for our dc.

momtothree · 02/04/2015 22:22

Schools do not have to have too sets and van teach in any mixture they choose other than maths my daughter is in all mixed ability classes. Check the gov web site..... she gets v annoyed

BeyondRepair · 02/04/2015 22:22

poly I would be chaining myself to MP if my dc failed and had to go to failing hovel.

its not something I would accept.

titchy · 02/04/2015 22:23

It's a newspaper article based on 41 schools. The bulk of the article talks about A level grades - and Oxbridge entrance - not relevant to most. MW argues for setting from day 1 - I agree. It's easy enough to check if your local comprehensive sets. If it does you can rest easier.

Original poster
polycomfort · 02/04/2015 22:24

Thanks again.

I do think education is all. I've cringed at my own lack of education when I've heard colleagues ask about applicants "where did they school?" And then recoil when the response isn't desirable. It's not fair or right but it does happen.

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Original poster
polycomfort · 02/04/2015 22:25

Ha! I'll buy my chains and shackles now GrinGrin

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BeyondRepair · 02/04/2015 22:25

I just think its a better position to be in to have got the grades your capable of, than be trapped with potential and bad grades.

Titchy, there are tons of articles on it.

titchy · 02/04/2015 22:27

I agree.

Articles do not equal data.

The single biggest influence on a child's academic achievement is their mother.

BeyondRepair · 02/04/2015 22:27

I am not going to lay waste my DD education just because local school happens to be crap right now.

no way. i am going for the best we can possibly get for her right now.

Mehitabel6 · 02/04/2015 22:27

It doesn't really matter if OP is annoyed because grammar schools are trying to be fair and are not likely to change. People will have to get used to it.
I have a wry smile that pupils at private schools don't smoke or drink- they just don't do it in sight- they can also afford harder drugs.
The language of 2 boys from a very prestigious school near me was appalling , as was their comments on another pupils mother , but they do know when not to use it.
I still haven't found a single person able to say why my non academic DS shouldn't be in in the same school as my academic DS.

Original poster
polycomfort · 02/04/2015 22:30

I don't think anyone on this thread at least and certainly no one I've ever spoke with has been daft enough to say that children from private schools don't smoke or do drugs Hmm

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Beloved72 · 02/04/2015 22:35

"Almost two-thirds (65,000) of those who achieved top grades (level five) in English and maths national curriculum tests at 11 failed to go on and get the A or A grade at GCSE in the subjects that was expected of them*."

My dd will probably be one of these kids - she's just about to fail many of her GCSE's through a lack of work despite leaving primary with all level 5's. Not her secondary school's fault. She has fantastic teachers, and the school had busted it's arse to motivate her and help her.

There are more disaffected pupils in state schools - nothing to do with the quality of the teaching, though it may have something to do with them having an awareness that there is is two tier system - and they're in the bottom tier. Way to go in letting kids know where they are in the pecking order. No wonder so many have low expectations.

titchy · 02/04/2015 22:35

Well you cited smoking as one of the behaviours you wanted to avoid!

ItsAllKickingOffPru · 02/04/2015 22:39

They don't tend to do it at the school gates or in school. Good schools give a clear message that sort of behaviour won't be tolerated.

It's a cop out to blame bad results on an inferiority complex about your school, two tier system or not.