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Original poster

to think everyone needs to read the book "chavs" by owen jones

167 replies

GaryShitpeas · 30/03/2015 13:29

well.... everyone earning less than about 50k. ...or if you weren't born into money... if you identify as working class, if you live in social housing, if you don't own your home, if you are on any or have ever been on benefits...if any of those apply then you need to read this to see how much we are all getting screwed by those at the top.....It made me so angry ......i knew things were shit and getting shitter but my god it has opened my eyes even more....I couldn't put it down over the weekend and was sat ignoring everyone while reading it with my face like this --> Shock and Angry

it has also made me want to become properly politically active because the only way things will change is if "people like us" stand up and shout LOUD

I will NEVER use the word chav again

OP posts:
Flingmoo · 31/03/2015 08:57

Going back to the OP though, I went to a talk by Owen Jones while I was at uni, it was v interesting and he certainly knows his Marxism... He seems very young though and reminded me of Russel Howard - I get the impression people don't like being lectured by such a young chap and would prefer a beardy old wise man to deliver the message...

Original poster
GaryShitpeas · 31/03/2015 09:27

i couldn't believe how young he is, assumed he was 40s or 50s

he is younger than ME

OP posts:
MarshmallowFluff · 31/03/2015 09:34

TBF Gary you're knocking on Smile

MarshmallowFluff · 31/03/2015 09:39

OTOH OJ has been around about the same length of time as you've been here....

Have you seen his FB page? All a bit cult-like.

Original poster
GaryShitpeas · 31/03/2015 09:53

oi marshmallow

Angry

no i haven't seen his fb... ::goes to look::

OP posts:
PeriodMath · 31/03/2015 10:36

ROFL at cotton ceiling Grin

This is a thing? People pretending their fanjos are knobs and vice versa, and everyone else has to play along or be a bigot? Ha ha, love it.

samG76 · 31/03/2015 10:36

I've not read the book on chavs, but OJ has some rather confusing views and associations. He's apparently speaking next week with a radical Islamist who thinks that all apostate Muslims should be killed, and gays should be thrown off a cliff (or a building, if necessary). I don't think the cotton ceiling is very high on their list of concerns...

Sallystyle · 31/03/2015 11:23

Just downloaded it.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 31/03/2015 13:11

I agree wholeheartedly with Sleepless and Mamushka. I subscribed to this kind of Guardian group-think when I was in my 20's and even my 30's. Now I'm old enough to know that there is a distinct line between what he has described as "chav" and "working class".

I would be delighted for him to come and see the underclass surge in my Fulham neighborhood, in the 1M+ HA flats granted to perpetually unemployed young men who sit around smoking pot all day long while the rest of the street is at work.

We also have a significant chunk of managerial working class people who predate the rest of the street, e.g. white van tradespeople who own their own companies, etc. It would be impossible for a reasonable person to conflate these two groups.

MarshmallowFluff · 31/03/2015 14:22

1M+?

Casuallyvacant · 31/03/2015 14:39

toffs use it to refer to all working class people. But I think there is a place for the word. Where I grew up in the 90s and early 00s, everyone was broke but my family, and my friends' families have always been respectful of others,

You can't see the irony in this statement? Grin

Casuallyvacant · 31/03/2015 14:42

He reminds me of Nicola Horlick's character in Life is sweet. All, " But I am poli'ical!!" middle class, privileged champagne socialism at it's most nauseating. And badly written.

mytartanscarf · 31/03/2015 16:54

The issue is that ultimately, Jones and Toynbee don'tlive amongst the people they profess to be experts on. It's so easy to raise an eyebrow at the terrible welfare cuts of the Tories when your child isn't being mercilessly bullied by the children of those affected by the welfare cuts. Nick Davies wrote Dark Heart which was a really interesting read and made salient points but again there was a lot of emotional and quite heartwrenching stuff about the problems but no solutions were presented.

I work in a low paid job myself and I do know, although am cushioned to some extent, how hard it can all be.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 31/03/2015 16:56

1M+?
Is this a question?

Casuallyvacant · 31/03/2015 17:02

I'd happily pay more tax to see Owen, Toynbee et al live amongst their proteges for a few weeks.

Casuallyvacant · 31/03/2015 17:04

I've taught in rough, rough schools in some of our dodgiest parts of our dodgy cities and could tell tales to make anybody's hair curl.

Many of these people behave almost sub humanly. I've been threatened with rape, beaten, attacked, robbed and burgled.

By my pupils.

Casuallyvacant · 31/03/2015 17:05

Owen Jones is a cock. Go and live on one of these estates, arsewipe.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 31/03/2015 17:06

It's pretty shit though, to be a young unskilled man these days, I can see why many feel so uninvested in society.

And before everyone accuses me of being a bleeding heart leftie, I remember the equivalent when I was a kid, (I'm 50) had jobs in factories that paid enough to have a life and a house and a family. It's not the same now.

Casuallyvacant · 31/03/2015 17:10

And the incentive was there to find work.

No nests were featherbedded by a bloated welfare state.

Blueskybrightstar · 31/03/2015 17:19

I havent read Chavs but saw that it had really good reviews for the most part - but The Establishment is really poorly written.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 31/03/2015 17:29

One of the party’s hosts joked: “It’s sad that Woolworth’s is closing. Where will all the chavs buy their Christmas presents?” The other guests tittered. Mr. Jones stewed.

I simply don't believe this. Either he is spending time with some outstandingly loutish people (and attempts to make the case that all middle-and-upwards-class people are the same), or he is lying.

BreakWindandFire · 31/03/2015 17:44

I'd happily pay more tax to see Owen, Toynbee et al live amongst their proteges for a few weeks.

Well, Toynbee did that for several months for her book 'A Working Life' in the 70s and again in 2003 for Hard Work - low paid jobs, terrible housing, neighbours from hell etc.

sugar21 · 31/03/2015 17:52

Why label anyone? In my mind we are all people with feelings and problems whether we're single married gay bi or transgender I cannot stand all this stereotyping. Even a pit bull owning track suited person still has feelings and I think to attach labels to people is silly. I cannot stand snobbery and will not look down on others
I came from a privileged background but now I'm just grateful that someone was kind enough to put a roof over my head. So to the sterotypers I'm THE UNDERCLASS but in my head I'm happy to be alive.
BTW chav is supposed to mean council house and violent. Owen Jones needs to live on skid row for a few weeks and then he may revise his thinking.

MarshmallowFluff · 31/03/2015 19:02

BTW chav is supposed to mean council house and violent.

No it doesn't.

BaconAndAvocado · 31/03/2015 19:11

So,what does the word chav mean?