to post a friendly reminder about school residential trips?

[ErmNoNoNo]

Seems as good a time as any: lots of school posts (as always in AIBU), the wine is flowing (Friday) and the summer term is coming up (come on weather please)...

It seems every year that there are many parents that are genuinely shocked to find out that teacher and TAs who accompany the class on residential school visits do not get paid a single penny more than their normal wage.

Yes, we volunteer. Yes, we deal with all the tears. Yes, we are on duty 24 hours and sometimes get VERY little sleep. Yes, we deal with the vomit. Yes, we encourage and make sure they get the absolute best out of their time there. Yes, we deal with all medical issues even though, surprisingly we are not qualified. Yes, when its mid-week, we also have to go back into work the next day.

Yes... we would really, really appreciate it if you just say 'thank you', when you pick your child up at he end of it.

(all you REASONABLE parents, I know you do - but honestly, the amount of parents who think we get paid for this would shock you)

There is nothing wrong with encouraging your children (or indeed the children you happen to be in charge of at the time) to say thank you to other people.

My distaste is to do with people who say 'look at what I do for you, you should thank ME'

That makes my skin crawl.

It is interesting that without teaching manners more generally (perhaps by, you know, having them yourselves) that the upshot is people demanding thanks for themselves to teach more widely abiut manners. No idea where to go with that.

To be clear - I am not against teaching children manners by example, but it just feels self-congratulatory to demand them yourself (although I suppose if you are convincing yourselves you are doing it for the good of society, you would disagree, lol)

I do get the kids to thank other people. I don't MAKE them thank me. The switched on ones will be able to grasp that concept without me making a direct link. Lol, usually I am the one thanking them as they leave...

There should also not be a graded level of thanks dependent on whether you are paid for the service provided. I mean, really? Either you are thankful, or you aren't. Whether the person has been paid or not is irrelevant, surely?

What, perhaps, teachers should be thanking parents for is the absoluely invaluable insight into their parenting (and therefore into their offspring's in-school behaviour) that residentials provide .... tongue in cheek evil grin!

I do get the kids to thank other people. I don't MAKE them thank me. The switched on ones will be able to grasp that concept without me making a direct link.

Well, I suppose I could have said 'remember to thank the next person' when they didn't thank me ... but reminding them to thank me so that they would thank the next person doing the identical job for them seemed like a decent way of going about it... maybe I was wrong.

Lip service for manners. I would rather kids and parents thank (me, or anyone else) because they understand and are thankful, not because they have been taught to parrot.
I'm sure the op would claim that this is a PSA 'newsflash - no extra pay for teachers on trips'. But in reality, the kids and parents should just understand that the trip has been hard work on their behalf, and feel thankful. Whether or not the staff are paid is not the point.

To claim non-payment is the reason that people should be thankful in this instance is irritating. It's reducing everything to the level of cold hard cash. Look, I did this for nothing. For you. Thank me.

We do that every day as parents. I really don't want my kids to be raised with the attitude that everything boils down to money.

I want them to see people for people, for what they do, for how hard they work, and genuinely understand that actions speak louder than whether something hits your bottom line.

Reducing thanks to a cash transaction? Ew.

I'm well aware none of my thoughts on this make sense. and they are probably entirely contradictory.

I dunno, teach. I just know that I usually find myself thanking other people at the end of a session/ activity/ meeting that I've been running. Thank you for your time. Thank you for listening to my try inning session. Thank you for being part of this. (Thank you for going home...)

It probably makes me batshit crazy...

And I do thank the parents when they'd pick the kids up. Especially after camp, as I'm so grateful they did... Dealing with uncollected children is a nightmare that extends the camp way after the agreed parameters lol. I suppose I have upheld my end of the bargain (run a camp as a volunteer, kept the kids safe and learning) and they have upheld their part of the deal - collected them at the end... So I say 'thank you! See you on Monday!' And mean it.

Is that weird? It probably is...

Insights into parenting is an interesting one! I had a girl a couple of years ago that was a royal pita. The first camp really did give us a huge insight into why. She cried for the whole of the first night. They had moved across the country for mum's work. She had no friends. Was finding it really hard to settle. Her actions were really a combination of attention seeking (literally trying to be seen, as she felt invisible - mum was busy with work and there was literally no one else filling the void from her previous life) and being at that age... She cried all night for her friends she would never see again. Once we understood the background, we were able to facilitate her relationships and guide her behaviour better.

I didn't thank her mum especially for giving me an insight into their family life, lol, but I did thank her for letting the girl come on camp. Even though she was literally the hardest work there. This kid really needed to be there, and to start bonding with the other girls.

I guess I'm thanking them for trusting me with their kids?

And I suppose that whether your kid has to be there or not can affect parental responses too. A school residential (whether notionally mandatory or not) has a greater air of expectation to attend than a voluntary extra-curricular activity. So parents are possibly less likely to thank teachers and TAs as really, they don't have a choice about whether their kids attend. Or to put themselves out and amend their own family routine because x has to be away at that point. With extra curriculars, I guess it's more of a 'hmm, you wanna go? Or not?'

So a school trip is more part of the ordinary school deal - one of those things you get done... (From a parent pov)

Apols for clogging up thread with my v boring musings... I'm now off on a ponder as to who I have thanked after various trips and stuff my own kids have been on, both school andotherwise... Dd1 is away at the moment, so I can judge my motivations on Sunday

I think that posts such as the OPs stem from the fact that, having been so stressed out and worked so hard for three days to ensure that the kids are safe and have had a good time, the prevalent response isn't a thanks from parents, but complaints that Ellie wore the same knickers for two days running and no one reminded her to change them, or that Ollie only got to share a room with one of the friends he had put on his list or whatever.

I guess it's just a bit demoralising and that is where the 'a thanks once in a while would be nice' feeling comes from?

Btw, if there were a thread started by a PCOS or brownie leader etc, explaining what they do for nothing but thanks, I would be thanking them, of course. Just like I do in RL. I think it's a good thing to have it pointed out to us sometimes when we benefit from the open hearted ness of others, and may not be fully aware of how much goes into the seemingly simple trip away for a few days, or running a community bus service for the elderly, or whatever it is.

So, for anyone who does give. Up their time and energy to help those around them, in whatever capacity, Thank You.

I include people who deliver support that I don't even benefit from, as I am just grateful to have generous people like that in our communities.

All of the pople on this thread who are saying something along the lines of:

"Well, its' part of your job/no other job role asks for thanks etc"

How many of you are the following;

A Teacher
Some sort of youth leader that has actually taken kids away in your own time
A person who has volunteered to help on these residentail trips?

Becasue if you haven't done any of those things....

...piss off. You have no idea how exhausting it is, even just taking them out for a day trip.

You have NO IDEA about the amount of organisation it takes.
The amount of form filling you have to do. all the fucking Risk Assessments , all the poksy consent forms, collecting all the money. Answering all the stupid questions parents have. organising and running a parents meeting, which 20% won't turn up to and they'll be the ones who forget to pack the right equipment, or ask inane questions, or ask you ridiculous things like "Oh, can't the bus just pick up my DC from our house? it's driving right by us" or forget to send their child with their epiPen... or insist that they should be allowed to phone their child in the middle of the week, or send them with more pocket money than they're supposed to etc etc etc
And then you finally get them all on the bus at 4pm, with (hopefully) everything they need.

Then you have to keep 30+ 7 years olds entertained and manage toilet breaks and boredom and travel sickness for hours.

Then you arrive at the other end (let's say we're going to somewhere like PGL) you have to help them haul their luggage up, because some parents will have completely ignored the "ALL LUGGAGE MUST HAVE WHEELS" note

Then you have to get them to their rooms, and sort out bed squabbles, help the kids unpack.
Herd them to dinner, making sure they all eat properly - often helping THAT child who can't use a knife and fork, or is allergic to everything on the menu.
Then you finally get to grab your dinner, and still have to watch the kids.
Get them back tot heir rooms, get them into bed - helping them get changed where they can't do it themselves.
Makig sure they've all washed themselves and are actually in bed. Doing lights out and patrols. Finally getting to a quiet time, when you think "aaaaah, it's 11.30pm time for bed!" You get changed and some little child comes to your room crying because they're homesick. You escort them back to their room, when the other kids are now awake and setting off about they're home sick too. You calm them all down, say goodnight again. Crawl into bed. Wake up early, because they all have to be up and at breakfast by 7.30.

Get them all up, help them get dressed, do up more shoelaces than you should have. Discover a child has only brought wellies for the entire weekend. Traipse the over to breakfast, watch them struggle with the milk. Decide you now have to be the 'milk monitor' and stand for 30 minutes pouring milk. Wander over to your table, notice 6 of them haven;t got anything to drinks, send them off to get drinks. Watch one of them drop their cup.
The first morning they'll all have about the spoons of cereal and declare they've "had enough" you'll encourage them to eat more, because they'll be STARVING HUNGRY come 10am. No, they've had enough. Then you get them back tot he rooms, ready for activities. Where someone hasn't go a raincoat and it's pouring down. So you find a spare anything from what you've brought. You give away your jumper to the skinny little girl who's Mum didn't think she'd need one. You grab the first aid kit, the mid-morning snacks and herd them to activities, and sit watching them, for a bit, really wishing you had a cup of tea with you, and then one gets too scared and sits with you for the duration, whilst you try really hard to get them to do the activity. Then one of them "feels sick".

ALL OF THIS - and it's only 10am the NEXT DAY :( You're already tired, already done waaaay too much, and you've been with these kids a sum total of 16 hours, and you realise you've still got TWO MORE NIGHTS AND 2 and a half days of this.

by the last night, you could sleep through WWIII.

When you finally get back to school, and the kids are all being colleced - uyou're a zombie. You are so ridiculously tired and all you want to do is lie down and sleep. But you can't. THe kids are being collected. There's that one parent who takes forever to pick up their kid. You ring them and they don't answer, so you ring the second contact who has no clue that the child has even been away. Try the parents again, they finally answer and say "Oh we're shopping, we'll be there in a bout 30 minutes" you tell the child whoc is upset (because they're exhausted)

You wait in a carpark, apologising profusely with your eyes to your waiting husband, then eventually the parents turn up, you hand the kid over and go and die in the car, get home and collapse.

So, Yes. sorry the teachers/leaders/whoever deserve amedal and OPs like this SHOULD point these things out, because unless you've done it.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

[grump]

But - we do it, because it's fucking amazing. The kids achieve so much, That one 'scared' kid, will eventually be convinced to go on the high-ropes and do it and come running to you jumping with joy about how she loved it and wants to again. You laugh a lot with the kids and leaders. You have special moments with all involved you get to know people on a completely different level. YOU find out stuff about kids you never thought possible. That 'naughty kid' will do something amazingly kind and be the most supportive kid there. They'll try and chase you with water balloons. Insist you go on the giant swing and cheer for you the loudest out of all the people there. They'll sing happy birthday to you loudly at dinner.

It's all worth it :)

001,

Well I think we do have some idea...majority of teachers I have as friends, am related to or meet in everyday life or on MNs ... Keep telling us all about it All the time.

No other profession seems to have such large chips on their shoulder and such a profound sense of neediness. It does sound shit but rewarding, but a lot of our work lives are like that, please at least acknowledge that.

There are very few professions so persistently vilified in the media and the butt of so many snide remarks in real life either, I think.

It must be very different in the secondary sector

I picked the trip, admin staff deal with money and forms.

I run a meeting for parents and students, if you don't attend the meeting you don't go.
If you misbehave on the trip, I have the right to ask parents to collect you at their cost and you will be banned from ever going on a trip again
Yes I come home a little tired, just like I do from many family holidays.

ilovesooty You say There are very few professions so persistently vilified in the media and the butt of so many snide remarks in real life either, I think so you've forgotten social workers!

Andrew I did say few, not none.

So.. .silver you're not a teacher/youth leader/volunteer on these trips hen I presume! :)

I think there is much more awareness of (for example) a Doctor and the hours they work. They work long hours and have high pressure jobs. But they are paid significantly more than teachers.

Firefighters are in a similar position to teachers. Similar pay, similar hours. But again, they're almost treated like heroes because they save lives. And people are more aware of what they do. But again, it's not a fair comparison as they often do shift work.

I think Teachers are almost... disrespected in this country. People go "ohhhh, stop WHINING... ohh you've got a chip on your shoulder" But they have this huge chip on their shoulder because on the whole.... people have NO IDEA what teachers actually do and what they actually have to out up with and for relatively low pay. They do not see the teacher spending nights at home marking giving up their lunch breaks to get Trevor though his GCSEs ,and helping Susie complete her coursework, and running the after school catch up sessions, and doing break duty, and mediating between quarrelling students, and trying to teach a class of 30 kids, of which are made up of 5 kids with SEN, 1 kids who just argues the toss, the other kid that swears at them and tells them to F off" Then Mrs Parent emails the teacher complaining "why did you send my precious out of lessons? She says she did nothing wrong, so why did you do it?" and the aprent of the child who puts in zero effort and disrupts the class is asking for meeting with you because their Precious is about to fail GCSE English,a nd what can you do about it? And Why didn't you do anything about this before?"

Now, I don't know what you do as a job, but, I know I'd go stir crazy in mine if this is how I had to work. :/

I volunteer for D of E expeditions with my children's school. The expeditions are often during the week and unlike the teacher leaders, who are paid for those days, I use my annual leave entitlement. So effectively I am paying for the privilege of ensuring other people's children can go on a D of E expedition.

Despite that, unlike the teacher OP, I don't feel the need to post requiring thanks. And then teachers wonder why they are perceived as a bunch of whiners.....

Phil at the secondary where I worked teaching staff did those tasks.

Philoslothy taking 7 year olds away is a different ball game to 14 year olds.

(Most) 14 yos, can out their own hair up... and can get dressed, don't need to be told to get a drink, or need help pouring that drink and they can usually do their own shoes up :)

00100001 you win the whiner of the thread award

Just imagine how much you do for your own 7 year old on a day to day basis.

Make that child really tired, by letting her take part in exciting activities, make sure she goes to bed late and wakes up early. Now, do all the things you normally do for her, as well as anything that you do for her as a result of being tired and away form home and doing new things.... then multiply that by 30... and then you have an idea :)

I've taken kids on residential trips before and it is exhausting. However I always enjoyed seeing the kids enjoy the experience and getting to bond. I never once expected a thank you from the parents. It never occurred to me.