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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to post a friendly reminder about school residential trips?

416 replies

ErmNoNoNo · 27/03/2015 23:09

Seems as good a time as any: lots of school posts (as always in AIBU), the wine is flowing (Friday) and the summer term is coming up (come on weather please)...

It seems every year that there are many parents that are genuinely shocked to find out that teacher and TAs who accompany the class on residential school visits do not get paid a single penny more than their normal wage.

Yes, we volunteer. Yes, we deal with all the tears. Yes, we are on duty 24 hours and sometimes get VERY little sleep. Yes, we deal with the vomit. Yes, we encourage and make sure they get the absolute best out of their time there. Yes, we deal with all medical issues even though, surprisingly we are not qualified. Yes, when its mid-week, we also have to go back into work the next day.

Yes... we would really, really appreciate it if you just say 'thank you', when you pick your child up at he end of it.

(all you REASONABLE parents, I know you do - but honestly, the amount of parents who think we get paid for this would shock you)

OP posts:

mariamin · 28/03/2015 00:15

I have been a volunteer on many children's residential trips and have helped organise them to. We are with the children 24 hours a day, and we don't get to go to exciting places, as we need to keep the trips cheap. They are exhausting, but lots of fun. And even though we are all volunteers, some parents still take us totally for granted.

Iggi999 · 28/03/2015 00:18

NUT comment:
Unless the visit is part of the curriculum for a particular subject, for example, a geography field trip, the involvement of teachers in school visits is entirely voluntary

Iggi999 · 28/03/2015 00:19

I am not in England, the pay scale comment does not apply to Scotland at all, no discretionary payments here.

MrsCakesPrecognitionisSwitched · 28/03/2015 00:29

Surely it is normal and polite to thank the person who has just been looking after your child?

Kids get off the coach, collect suitcase, say goodbye and thank you to the staff. I don't understand why people seem to think this is a big ask.

WorraLiberty · 28/03/2015 00:30

Ok well I'm off to bed now.

But just in case anyone thinks I'm ungrateful...I'm not.

I just get a little tired of people expecting praise on MN for 'volunteering' to do something that will (even if in a small way) impact on their chosen career when it comes to being assessed/reviewed by their line managers.

Whereas to me a truly remarkable volunteer gives up their time (and sometimes risks their lives) to help others and it has no impact in their career or pay at all.

Maybe it's an MN thing but I've yet to see an accountant by day, who volunteers on a lifeboat by night, asking for people to thank them...

So goodnight and thank you OP.

funkyfoam · 28/03/2015 00:33

I don't really like this thread. As a teacher I have taken children on a lot of residential trips including weekend ones. I kind of think of it as part of the job (which I don't have to do if I really feel strongly about it). It is nice of course if parents are appreciative. However as a guider taking girls to camp I do actually think I deserve a bit of thanks because that is true volunteering.

mellicauli · 28/03/2015 00:35

I would be surprised to hear you got paid any extra. I frequently go away for a week or so with work and do my work thing somewhere else for extended hours and giving up weekends for travel. It's a professional thing. Everyone does it. If you got paid a daily or hourly rate it would be different.

Don't get me wrong. I am grateful - very grateful on behalf of the kids who live narrow lives due to lack of money and need to see there is more out there than their home town.

yummumto3girls · 28/03/2015 00:36

......Must remember to take a bottle of wine for teacher when daughter returns after 8 days skiing!!

OutragedFromLeeds · 28/03/2015 00:39

I think because when people are dragged out of the sea by a lifeboat volunteer they (and their family) probably remember to say thank you. Parents picking kids up from a school trip....not so much maybe?

SilverBirch2015 · 28/03/2015 00:42

And this is different from other people's work life how? Teachers do an excellent job and it is nice to thank them BUT many of their profession do not seem to realise other professionals are also expected to attend courses, meetings, events, presentations and catch-up with work outside normal working hours and not be paid for it.

WorraLiberty · 28/03/2015 00:44

Oh really OutragedFromLeeds? That's what you got from my post?

Fantastic! (I'm not even being sarky now...I actually did laugh at that!)

manicinsomniac · 28/03/2015 00:45

Ermnonono - sole charge?!? Are you joking?! Bloody Hell, that is a different world. No way would I be expected to (or agree to!) that. I have never had fewer than 1 colleague with me on a trip in the UK and always 2-3 others if abroad. Sole charge is a very different ball game, you're right.

In all seriousness, I would question this before you do it again - for both your sake and the children's, I really don't think it's advisable.

Brandysnapper · 28/03/2015 00:48

But Silver, teachers already attend courses, meetings, events, presentations and catch-up with work outside normal working hours and not be paid for it
... And then take your dcs on overnight trips.

OutragedFromLeeds · 28/03/2015 00:50

Worra what I took from your posts was that you are fed up with teachers, midwives, nurses and police officers asking for thanks when people who do voluntary work unrelated to their day job, that is often dangerous don't ask for thanks.

My point was that people generally remember to thank people who save their lives or do things involving great danger/bravery etc. Maybe they forget to thank people who do more everyday things like teachers who take kids on trips.

I'm not sure why that is funny , but I'm glad you're happy before bed I guess!

mariamin · 28/03/2015 00:51

OutragedFromLeeds - No many parents don't thank volunteers who take children away on trips.

SilverBirch2015 · 28/03/2015 01:11

Brandy, I may not look after your DC ... but I certainly am expected by my employer to travel long distances and stay overnights to fulfil my role, spending time with people socialising and supporting (that I would rather not be with).

I have said it is nice to thank people on a personal level. But it is part of a lot of people's work life doing this sort of thing.

Gibble1 · 28/03/2015 01:12

As a nurse, I ALWAYS thank the teachers who have taken my DC's away on a residential. I am also a cub leader and generally get thanked by the children who I have taken away.
But, and this is a BIG but, I think that the teachers who took my DD's year 6 residential deserved a bloody medal because they had a broken bone and hospital visit on a daily basis. Some really nasty ones.
They DON'T get paid any more so why aren't we grateful?

HarrietSchulenberg · 28/03/2015 01:14

But Worra, or whoever it was who reckoned "real" volunteers were selfless, what makes you think that?
Volunteers do unpaid things for many reasons, like CV enhancement or for the warm and fuzzy feeling that "doing something good for nothing" gives them.
They might not be paid in money but you can rest assured they're getting something back from it.
There is no such thing as altruism.
And whoever mentioned hairdressers: why would hairdressers be thanked for their unpaid work? They are paid an hourly or per client rate, are they not? Since when have they been doing additional hours and free haircuts?
There aren't many jobs that require you to occasionally work 24 hours per day for the duration of a school trip, with the responsibility of looking after the safety and welfare of other people's children, and at the expense of time spent with your own family.
OP isn't looking for adulation, just a simple, "Thanks" and a smile.

SilverBirch2015 · 28/03/2015 01:27

Harriet, there may be no such thing as Altruism in your world. But I do paid work and also volunteer for a charity, and daily meet amazing people who do what they do for either no financial reward or less salary than they could earn elsewhere because they care passionately about the work the charity does.

People who want to give something back be it cub groups, PTAs, helping people less fortunate than themselves, small or large charities make this country the caring and compassionate place it is. You do them a great disservice by stating there is no such thing as genuine altruism.

Original poster

ErmNoNoNo · 28/03/2015 01:40

Still awake and stills amusing myself with some replies:

At no point have I (or anyone else) said that teachers deserve the same praise as firefighters, air/sea rescue or other such volunteers. However, yes we do volunteer. Our headteacher asks us to go on these trips. If we said no, they wouldn't happen. So, erm, I think that is the very definition of volunteer. So next week it's been my decision: i am taking kids on residential and will be on duty 24hrs but I could have said no and worked my normal 8-6 week. (I know others have said they don't have a choice but think that's a whole other thread - that isn't my experience at all). In no way am I more likely to get my pay rise than the yr4 teacher who hasn't been asked.

Those comparing it to traveling with work- genuine questions: are you expected to deal with a sick child at 3am, then get 30 children up for breakfast at 7:30am and supervise them for the next 72hrs?

My post was exactly for CalioBlue who didn't realise that adults (and in my OP I made a point of not just saying teachers) don't get paid any extra pay for spending 24/7 with the children. And now he/she knows and can use that info as they wish.

manicinsomniac - yes, as the lead teacher I am responsible for all of the children on the trip. Yes I have back up but ultimately I am the lead for that trip and the responsibility 24hrs per day falls to me- in not way have I ever felt it was in any way close to a holiday.

OP posts:

Gibble1 · 28/03/2015 02:00

I have a whale of a time when on cub camp but went our first of the year last week. I was asleep in the bath at around 7:30 on Sunday- DS woke me up to say "Mum, you shouldn't sleep in the bath, you might drown". I was shattered. However, our district have a "golden Woggle awards" and when one of mine won cub of the year, I was beaming and bursting with pride :)

houseofnerds · 28/03/2015 02:15

I took my guiding group on a 14 night international trip. I had to use up all of my holiday from my paid ft job to do it. (I get two weeks annual vacation). At Christmas I had to take unpaid leave to spend time with my family. I had spent the previous 18 months volunteering my time to fundraise for the trip at the weekends, because I passionately believed that any member should be able to go on the trip, not just those who could afford it. I had two other volunteers with me. One relapsed (alcoholic) as a direct result of the stress of the trip - and she just attended, not organised it.

The girls had a great time though. They will never forget it.

When I look at the ruins of the volunteer leadership team (including myself) I still wonder what we got out of it...

I don't turn a hair at the normal weekend camps now. Water off a duck's back.

Do I want to be thanked? Um. Tricky. I don't want girls or parents to be obviously ungrateful, lol. But I'm a guider, it's what we do.

Threads like this leave me a bit cold tbh. Reminding people to be grateful is a bit self-congratulatory for my tastes. And reminding people you don't get paid 'extra' for it makes my teeth itch a bit. It's a bit 'look how good I am'. Leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

I suppose it's human nature to want recognition, but it's not a trait I admire.

houseofnerds · 28/03/2015 02:16

Original poster

ErmNoNoNo · 28/03/2015 02:18

When Worra et al wake up (sorry I'm picking on you Worra but your posts stand out) I'd like to know how I'm being unreasonable in:

Informing parents who didn't know that teachers and TA don't get paid extra for taking kids on residential trips that we don't
Thinking that it would be nice to get a 'thank you' (not extra pay, not eternal gratitude over and above others) for VOLUNTEERING our time.(Please give me a valid argument as to why we aren't volunteering our time when we'd still get the same pay if we couldn't attend or didn't agree to attend the trip.)

OP posts:

UptheChimney · 28/03/2015 02:18

OP you are very very far from being unreasonable.

Unreasonable was the serious suggestion at a PTA meeting that teachers & TAs should actually have to pay for themselves, because the school trip was a "holiday." I kid you not.

Awful awful parents saying publicly that they were unprepared to pay the slight extra charge over the actual cost for their child, in order to cover the costs of the accompanying teaching staff.

Un.Believ.Able

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